2010 Wilier Cento Uno and Cento Uno SL

Wilier Team Lamprés waiting to be ridden for the TDF

Wilier Team Lamprés waiting to be ridden for the TDF

Well, it turns out that this frameset has got some major problems. These are due to the internal cable routing. The rear shifts of the derailleur are imprecise because of a bend in the cabling. The only way around this fault is to use external cable routing. Wilier are aware of this problem, and seem to have addressed it, but it’s still popping up on Cento Uno models. The 2010 Wilier Cento Uno and Cento Uno SL still have the same problems¹. It’s possible that these problems may appear on the new Wilier Imperiale, which is based on the ’09 Cento Uno and is their new aero frame, will have the same problems, as the geometry wasn’t changed from the Cento.

Two areas drew our concern and are worthy of mention. First, the dropped and curved driveside chainstay may reduce chain slap but it also makes for a less-than-optimal path for the internally routed rear derailleur cable. Wilier have addressed this with some low-friction liner to ease the cable through the frame entry/exit point but there was still enough additional drag on hand that we could never get the rear derailleur to shift 100 percent correctly in both directions no matter what we did with the available adjustments [note that Chris Davidson is a pro team mechanic with experience on UCI-registered Campagnolo-sponsored teams ~ Ed].  Our experience indicates that this cable routing binding issue may pose an even greater potential problem with the newer – and more lightly sprung – 11-speed groups that the Lampre team runs.

[Ed. note: Wilier was contacted about these issues and given a chance to refute or explain them. They didn’t. This post was researched. These aren’t just personal claims, but serious problems with the frameset that different owners have reported. The cabling issue stems from the way that the seat stays are used. There are workarounds, such as using external cabling.]

This makes buying any Wilier frameset a deal breaker for me. I won’t be getting one. It’s also important to note that Wilier seriously exaggerate the weight of their frames². The frames are a lot heavier than they report. I’ve seen that the frames are almost 200-300 gr heavier than expected. This doesn’t seem like much, but when you report that your frame weighs about 900 gr, it’s a serious issue. This is common, but usually the weights are close to what’s advertised.

The Cento Uno isn’t quite as stiff overall as some of its competition – under power it’s notably a step behind the Scott Addict and quintessential German carbon rigs like the Isaac Sonic – nor is it as light. In fact, the 1,240g actual frame weight (large size, measured without the included Ritchey seatmast head) is nearly 200g more than the claimed average. Fork weight, however, is as advertised at 350g with a 235mm-long steerer.

It’s also good to note that there is a serious lack of objective and in-depth bike reviews, especially for the high-end bikes. They usually tend to say that the bikes are great and offer no constructive criticisms. For riders who buy bikes to train and to ride the frames really hard, I find this unacceptable, which is why I have been trolling forums on the Web to find out exactly what’s up.

The other thing is that if you shell out $4,200 for a frameset, you better believe that you’ll say that it kicks ass. Which is why it’s hard to find critical reviews of those frames. Or maybe the owners don’t ride their bikes hard. I spend between 10 and 18 hours on a bike each week. You better believe that I’ll ride any frame I get pretty hard. If there are any faults, they will show. And they will show quickly.

Lastly, Wilier frames are made in Taiwan. I find it unacceptable that they charge these premium prices for their frames³. Those prices are reserved for euro bikes like TIME and Look. Just because Wiliers are designed in Italy doesn’t mean diddly squat.

A caveat: I have only researched these frames, never tried them. I have scoured forums and the web to get good idea about this frame. When I mentioned to my LBS about the problems of this frame, they agreed quickly enough, letting me believe that it was a known issue, which was confirmed by the web. I’ve talked to a bunch of different owners on forums and this is a known problem. How big is it? It all depends on what you do with your frame. If you ride just a bit, not too hard, then you will probably not even notice these faults. The more you ride your frame, the more these will become problematic.

Now I don’t believe that this is a fatal flaw, it’s just something that’s annoying to get on such an expensive frame. Kind of like some of the DeRosa frames’ finishing that looks pretty bad. Speaking of finishing problems:

Second, our test bike came with a sizeable anomaly in the cosmetic 1k finish weave. Seemingly staring up at us from the top of the wide down tube up by the head tube was a 20x80mm ‘patch’ . Wilier insist that this blemish was isolated to our non-representative early pre-production sample and true to their word, we found no similar patches in subsequent inspections of other Cento Uno models that we could lay our hands on. However, we did still note other examples – though far more minor – of less-than-perfect surface finish, particularly where separate frame sections were bonded together.

* * * * *

[¹]: As documented by Bike Radar as well as by multiple Cento Uno owners here.
[²]: This is pretty common, as bicycle companies will report the XS weight for the frame weight. However, there is a 20% difference for certain Wilier frames, which is starting to get more serious.
[³]: Thankfully, companies are catching on to this. The price of the Pinarello Prince, which is made in Taiwan, is coming down mostly because they released a new top of the line model, the Dogma.

89 Responses to “2010 Wilier Cento Uno and Cento Uno SL”


  1. 1 Bill Colnago September 11, 2009 at 02:18

    Guess, you have not been on a Wilier!!!

    Ride “before” you talk!!

  2. 2 range September 11, 2009 at 11:55

    Nope I haven’t been able to test ride a Wilier. I’ve only been able to examine a frame. The main thing is that before I buy a frame, I tend to fully research it. If any problems come up, I want to know about them.

    Do you have a Wilier and do you have shifting problems? How did you resolve them?

  3. 3 Dave Greenfield September 14, 2009 at 21:47

    Hi there

    Great article. So many people get snow blindness when it comes to bike frames. At that price, you would expect everything to be 100% including being made in Italy. I do think that its some-what strange that these Italian bike names (can’t call them manufacturers any more because the frame is no longer made in Italy)still call them Italian frames because they have been painted in Italy. £3500 and over just for a name on a frame because its now made in the far east…no thanks. Bit like putting a Yamaha engine in an exotic MV Agusta Italian motorcycle. All I can say is thank goodness for Colnago and De Rosa who still make their top end frames in Italy!

  4. 4 range September 15, 2009 at 00:37

    Hi, thanks for your comment!

    I know that the Colnago EPS is made in Italy, but the DeRosa King 3 has got some major finishing problems. I’ve read a lot of complaints about this frame.

    My next frame will either be a TIME RXR Ulteam or a Pinarello Prince. Even though the Prince is made in Taiwan, it’s still an incredible machine. With the Dogma coming out, we’ll see falling prices for that frame. All the fanboys will want to shell out thousands for the new Dogma, while people interested in deals will be scooping up lower priced Princes.

  5. 5 Dave Greenfield September 15, 2009 at 05:44

    Yes, I also understand that De Rosa have had problems. I think the Idol was also plagued with problems from brittle paintwork and intergrated seatpost. Shame, I do have a soft spot for De Rosa, I hope they sort the problems out!

  6. 6 range September 15, 2009 at 11:55

    Yep, that is completely unacceptable for a frame of that price. I’d be well pissed if something like that happened. I saw a green King 3 and it looked very nice.

    QC is a problem, still it can be worked out.

  7. 7 Robert September 24, 2009 at 23:55

    Wilier bikes are good enough for Lampre Pro Tour team and riders like Alessandro Ballan, still a world champion, and Damiano Cunego.

  8. 8 range September 25, 2009 at 02:00

    With pro mechanics and sponsorships, it’s always possible to iron out problems that arise with frames, especially with pro riders. The fact that Wilier is aware of the internal cabling issue and hasn’t yet made any changes for the 2010 lineup speaks volumes.

    I can’t buy 5 different bikes. I can only buy a few and I have to make sure that what I buy is solid quality. If it breaks and the company won’t repair it, I’m stuck with it. I ride my bikes hard and fast and they need to be able to keep up with me. I’m after the best bang for my buck.

    • 9 Robert October 4, 2009 at 00:37

      Yes, I’ve been riding Wilier for the last five years – to be honest, not Cento/Cento Uno range but much cheaper model. Definitely nothing to show off.
      I’ve been extremely satisfied with the bike. I make around 12k km every year and Wilier is going to be definitely my next choice. And Range, you’re not the only one who only wants to cycle hard and fast…

      About being able to boast how good and expensive someone’s latest frame is: in my country Wilier Cento Uno costs around 5,000 Euros (with DuraAce gruppo). If you’re lucky, you can even get one for as low as 3,500 Euros. Pinarello Prince (that you wanna buy – or have bought?) costs around 10,000 Euros.

      But whatever: I wish you a good ride and many happy hard and fast kilometers.

  9. 10 eride September 29, 2009 at 04:55

    The quality of the make is not if it is made in Italy vs Taiwan. The issue is quality of the factory, materials and the oversite. These can be very good in Taiwan or very good in Italy, or, very bad in either. Judging make by the country is no better than judging quality by the paint job.

  10. 11 range September 29, 2009 at 10:21

    Hi,
    I’m not judging the quality of Wilier by the fact that they are made in Taiwan. I’m only saying that paying so much for a Taiwanese frame is a bit ludicrous. That being said, the same can be said about Pinarellos. They are also in fact quite expensive in Taiwan, as most of them have to be reimported into Taiwan. This is true for Pinarellos.

    There are plenty of high quality bike frames made in Taiwan. Both of mine were and I’ve got no complaints.

    The issue at hand is really that Wilier are aware of problems with the internal cabling and they haven’t resolved it for the 2010 model year. Honestly, I’d probably get a frame with external cable routing so that the frame is more structurally sound.

  11. 12 range October 4, 2009 at 01:00

    Hi Robert,
    I haven’t bought a Pinarello Prince and right now, it’s still about $6,000 US here in Taiwan. I won’t be buying one soon.

    It’s good to know that you’ve had a positive experience riding Wiliers. Personally, I haven’t ridden any. I just researched the frame that I was going to buy. It’s just the internal cabling issue that rubbed me the wrong way.

    Ultimately, I’ll be getting a frame with external cable routing, as I thing that those frames are structurally stronger than ones that have internal cabling. I don’t really care how good internal cabling is.

    BTW, I’ll edit down my reply to you. I don’t know why it was so negative. Let’s just continue talking about bikes and get over our opinions!

    Cheers!

  12. 13 range October 4, 2009 at 01:10

    Hey Robert, just wanted to let you know that this is the bike that I’m considering right now:

    OEM Taiwanese frame by either Neo or Velocite, ’08 Campagnolo Record 10, Fulcrum Racing Zeros. Since it’s an OEM frame, the total comes to about $3,200. The frame is top of the line and weighs about 860gr. It uses the same type of carbon weave as the Storck 07 Fascenario.

    Having read a lot about carbon fiber frames, I am unsure that they will be resilient enough for the type of riding that I do. I do want to have a carbon fiber frame for racing, but for training, I am considering buying a titanium frame. Velocite is a small Taiwanese manufacturer with stringent EU QC compliance tests. They are going to release a frame named Millenium. I’m probably going to get a sponsorship deal and get it cheaper than most.

    Other than that, for my racing bike next year, I’ll probably get myself a Pinarello Prince or a Time RXT Ulteam. Both frames are about the same price here in Taiwan. I’d only get a frame and cobble up components from other bikes.

  13. 14 David October 19, 2009 at 09:44

    Hello Range, et al,

    I have a 2009 Wilier Cento Uno in European “yellow”, a color that is not offered in 2010. I special ordered it and I love this ride! I bought my Cento Uno from Ikon Cycles, a small one man shop in Sacramento. I am using 3T carbon handle bar, a mixture of Campagnolo Super Record/Record 11 speeds components, Fulcrum Racing 1 wheel set, and SpeedPlay Frog TI pedals. My bicycle is not only a smooth ride, but also a real eye catcher too.

    Any minor complaints? Sure. Due to internal cable routing of the brakes, the rear brake isn’t as smooth as the front brake. No big deal, I got used it since it is so minor. Now as for the rear gear change that Range mentioned? I haven’t experienced any major issues. I think my selection of Campagnolo components do require more tuning initially than SRAM and Shimano. Once it is set-up, it is such a joy to ride, and to look at.

    My Cento Uno frame is very strong and compliant. You can test the strength of a frame easily, hold the bike stationary, step on a pedal, push it toward the frame see how easily it will flex. Of course a hard riding session will also tell a lot about the frame. Try this on your carbon bike and other brands see what happens.

    Due to worldwide demand of Cento Uno frames, most bicycle shops do not have a demo unit in stock. So test ride a Cento Uno bicycle is generally a problem for many areas.

    I trust Campagnolo gears due to their long history, expertise, and success. There are a lot of little things about Campy gears that make them special.

    At Ikon Cycles, I also saw 1 to 3 years old Wilier frames returned for clear coat warranty service. Adrian (shop owner) somehow took care of them all. So the key here is to find a shop owner who will take care of you and truly believe in long term customer service.

    Before I purchased my Cento Uno, I look at Pinarello Prince (beautiful, but a little dated in design, not sure about the pig tail fork and rear stays, and I read in internet many frame problems reported, and problematic support from the factory), Look (I’m sure its a nice ride, but not as beautiful (subjective) + its French), Colnago (lugs? You’re kidding right? Cervelo (nice fit, but nothing special, it would make a great daily training/race bike to thrash), Trek, Specialized and Cannondale (been there and done that). I wanted something different this time, with quality and beauty, for me, Italian elegance and speed equipment expertise fit the bill, so the monocoque Cento Uno was it.

    I really don’t think you will be disappointed in a Cento Uno. I think it is more important to buy your bike from a reputable dealer who will take care of you if needed, and do negotiate for the best price.

    And from what I’ve seen, Wilier factory does a pretty good job of supporting their customers. If I didn’t buy a Cento Uno, what else would I have bought? A red Prince may be, but I am afraid of frame cracking and no support from Pinarello, plus I think it is too expensive, I would probably end up with a Cervelo R3, Orbea Orca or even a Ridley Noah (again, just to be a little different meanwhile demanding quality).

    Good luck,

    David

    • 15 Kevin December 31, 2009 at 23:42

      I pound on my Pinarello Prince and have never had a problem. The only bike I would sell it for would be a Time RXR Ulteam, which are handmade in France and come with a LIFETIME warranty. Tough to beat that.

      • 16 range December 31, 2009 at 23:55

        Hi Kevin,
        I’m actually about to pull the trigger on a Pina Dogma myself with SR11. I also was very interested in the TIME RXR Ulteam, but it’s quite expensive, more expensive than the Dogma in Taiwan.

        I agree that the lifetime warranty is compelling.

  14. 17 range October 19, 2009 at 12:17

    Thanks for your well-thought comment!

  15. 18 range October 19, 2009 at 15:18

    I’m actually wavering between a few different bikes at the moment. I’m not in a hurry, so I can take my time. It’s still between a Kuota KOM, an ’08 Wilier Cento, and an smaller brand bike frame from Velocite and/or Neo.

    The only thing that scares me when venturing into the OEM/smaller brand market is quality control. That might make me just go back to a bigger brand, even if it is slightly more expensive.

  16. 19 David October 20, 2009 at 02:28

    Hi all,

    I’ve been reading on your concern with carbon frames made in Taiwan, I did too. I did a little research on this subject. Manufactures have been investing in carbon manufacturing technology in Taiwan for over 20 years now, and they have came a long way. Engineering will decide how a frame is manufactured, type of carbon and process to use. Each manufacture will have its own philosophy on what makes a great frame, and try to differentiate itself from others. Due to the volume of Taiwanese frame are built (learning curve), I would worry more if a frame is not made in Taiwan.

    I wouldn’t buy a frame that is built in France or Africa, for instance. Their volume is too small for learning curve, in my opinion.

    And if you want a fancy paint job like my “yellow” Wilier Cento Uno, of course someone needs to pay for extra labor required in Italy. It is more important to buy your bike from a dealer that will support you, then worry about where was the frame made. Of course stay with major brands are always better.

    Always do a fit professionally too. Note that most people buy a frame that is one size too large. I believe one size frame small is easier to do fit, lighter, and will handle better. Plus having a long seat post showing looks cool.

    In my opinion, if you like Italian products as I do, Wilier is a great choice. I also discovered that Fuji makes great bicycles, their new 2010 SST is a great ride at a very fair price! There is nothing wrong with riding the new Specialized Tarmac SL3 or Cervelos (many frames are made in China).

    I do like the striking good look of Pinarello Prince, but to me, it just not worth the price, plus I think Wilier Cento Uno looks more elegant. The Prince need a “refresh”. The Palo Alto dealer told me Pinarello factory support can be unpredictable. Warranty is short, I believe 2 to 3 years, and Pinarello’s attitude is “it is a race bike, it should be hard use, in racing environment, race equipment do not last long”. So, if you want to buy a Pinarello, as long as you have this mindset, you’ll be okay.

    Products made in Taiwan are generally good quality. Did you know all of your PC/laptop computers are either made in Taiwan or China, regardless of brands? Taiwan makes all kinds of high quality semiconductors, bearings, infracstructure equipment, even their hand made saxaphones are world class? One can argue China manufacturing technology were from imported from Taiwan. So gang, don’t worry, your carbon frames were never meant to last forever. Buy your favorite bike, ride the crap out of it, use it, beat it up, get yourself into a great shape, and brag to your friends that you truly got your money’s worth out of your investment.

    When your fancy carbon frame start to flex or break from stress, if it is more than 2 years old, go buy yourself another fancy carbon frame and start the process all over again. The world need your support to get the economy going again.

    David in Elk Grove, CA

  17. 20 range October 20, 2009 at 16:10

    Hi David,

    I currently live in Taiwan, so I don’t have any issues with Taiwanese-made frames. Naturally, there are a lot of the frames that are now made in China, but Taiwan is an expert country in carbon fiber frames. It’s hard to find manufacturers whose frames aren’t made here. For example, Trek, Colnago, and others rely on outsourcing production to Taiwan. This also includes Cannondale.

    The internal cabling issue for Wilier troubled me because it has been an issue for years, since the Cento came out. I’m just surprised that it wasn’t corrected. From my research, it seems like the 2010 Cento Uno and SL still have the same issues.

    Right now, I’m currently deciding between a Neo, which is a small manufacturer located in China, and Velocite, which is a slightly bigger manufacturer located in Taiwan. I’m getting sponsorship deals through both and the fact that Velocite has to comply with stringent EU norms for QA reassures me quite a bit. Also, the sponsorship prices from Velocite are better.

    As for my next bike, I’ll probably buy a Titanium frame from Velocite. Sponsorship prices are hard to beat. Why? It’s designed to be a long-haul bike, incredibly durable and resilient. Carbon fiber frames are cool, but things can go wrong with them.

    My race bike frame will probably be either a TIME RXR Ulteam or Pinarello Prince. Pinas are cheap here, and with the release of the new Dogma, the Prince has gotten almost affordable. However, I liked the lugged design of the TIME RXR and have heard incredibly good things about it.

  18. 21 Adrian October 21, 2009 at 05:21

    Mitsubishi does not make the frames. In fact, Mitsubishi does not produce cabon fiber finished products at all. They own a company in Rancho Cordova, California that makes the raw fibers which they rebrand as Rayon. Other companies source these fibers and send them to the factories in Taiwan to use in frame production.

    Links to images for cable routing:

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1678654734

    Cable friction issues were limited to early Campy 11speed and 10 speed shifters from 2009. The latest shifters shift very well even internally routed. All other component groups (sram, shimano) had absolutely no issues with shifting or cable friction…ever.

    In order to address concerns with the potential of cable friction whether perceived or actual, Wilier has redesigned the route path on all of the current production Cento 1 frames. So they have actually addressed a problem which did not exist. That to me seems very conciliatory. If we take for instance Specialized for example, who had very severe handling issues at high speed with the tarmac for years and did nothing to address the issue for comparison, then Wiliers redesign is a remarkable example of consolation.

    The comment about the weights being off is also just simply not true. They like many others use the smallest frame as their basis for weight. The larger frames are indeed about 1200 grams. The XS frames run a little less than 1000. They claim 1050g and not 900 grams. This is really beside the point. Have you actually ever ridden a sub 900 gram frame at high rates of speed through tight technical turns? If you weight less than 150 it is a bit scary. Over that weight, it can be terrifying. The ride quality of the Cento 1 is truly unmatched. At lower speed it blasts the dogma out of the water for handling. At high speeds it is as stable as the dogma in a straight line and doesn’t under-steer like the dogma in corners. It also has a snappier sprint. The breakdown is this. There are really three top end, world class frames made now. The time Ulteam. The Dogma, and the Cento 1. All of these frames just whip the snot out of every thing else produced in the world today. The dogma is a bit like a Japanese cartoon bike in aesthetics. The time is striking looking, but it really looks French. No offense but it is a bit like a billboard add for a French pop rock station. The cento is a bit more classic in appearance, and it is a couple thousand less than the time and 1200 less than the Pin.

  19. 22 Adrian October 21, 2009 at 05:57

    One more thing,

    The internal shift cable routing has only existed on one bike that Wilier has ever made. The 2009 Cento Uno. The Cento did not have it, the Imperiale did not have it, and as I stated before, the latest frames coming off of the line have a redesigned cable path that does not drag a guide tube. So even though it is routed through the rear chain stay, it has the same amount of friction that it would if it were routed though external braze ons. If you don’t like the brand, fine. But you are throwing out a ton of misinformation. You have to get your facts straight.

  20. 23 range October 21, 2009 at 09:06

    Hi Adrian,
    I’m sorry, but the Wilier frames are most definitely made in Taiwan at the Mistubishi plant in Taijung. I have confirmation from multiple sources. They are made and finished in Taiwan. Pinarellos are made here and finished in Italy.

    About the cabling issue, it’s something that has been widely reported by different users and reviews. Just because one owner says that there isn’t an issue is good, but not enough to convince me completely that there is no issue. And to be frank, the research points to the Cento as being the culprit, not just the Cento Uno.

    The way around this issue is to simply do external cabling.

    About the weights, I know what the manufacturers do, but the weights for Wilier seem off by more than usual. That’s why I mentioned it. I think that you should do some research before making blanket statements. I actually was considering buying an ’08 Cento but when I found out about this, I had to reconsider.

    • 24 Adrian October 22, 2009 at 04:08

      Dude!

      you are not listening. I did not say that they were not made in Taiwan. Just that Mitsu is not making them. I have to repeat again, Mitsubishi does not produce carbon finished products. Go onto their (Mitsubishi rayon corp) corporate site http://www.mrc.co.jp/english/corporate/grouplist.html. The don’t have a factory in their organization in Taijung. And the only carbon finished goods that they reference is their golf shafts which are made in Nagoya, JP. So again, read very carefully, Mitsubishi is the supplier of Rayon carbon fibers, and not the finished goods they are made from. Others who read this please follow the above link and confirm what I have just stated. They are spec’ing the Fibers from a source in California. I have customers that work at the factory. They ship Rayon branded fibers. Beside as David wrote, where they are made is not the Issue. I simply put in that Mistu was only the source of the fibers as an example of your facts being incorrect.

      I have owned Wiliers, and Colnagos that were made in Italy and Finished in Italy, and I have to tell you, the quality is better right now coming out of Taiwan then anything that has ever come out of Italy for this material. I do a lot fewer warranties now than then.

      Again, I have built 12 Cento Unos this year alone, and More Centos then I can count in previous years. I ride the Cento myself and I have a Cento uno that I am building also for my self. Now you must read this carefully…The Wilier Cento has never had internal shift routing!!! Ever, not even for a little bit. So your research is not only wrong, it is suspect. I bet David will back me up on this. There is absolutely no way that you ever found anything in your “research” that suggested that the Cento has ever had internal shift routing because it hasn’t ever had it. This alone makes me call in to question your source and motive for the negative marks you put forth. The only bike they have ever produced with internal shift routing is the Cento Uno. You can refer to my previous post for info on that. Again man if you don’t like a product just say you don’t like it. What you are doing is purveying misinformation.

      You obviously are underestimating the depth from which I am speaking with regard to my experience with this brand and Italian frames in general. I have seen all of the real or supposed issues for this and a number of frames. I deal with them on a daily basis, and I have worked directly with Wilier to resolve any issues on my customers frames for longer than most people have known that Wilier existed. The reality of this situation is that you are not informed on the subject of discussion. Your are using anecdotal information to support an emotional argument. You are editorializing. With all due respect, while you are just recommending against a product, which is your right, thousands of people are making a living off of the venerability of the Wilier brand. You do all of these people a great insult in producing information that is incorrect. Please separate your emotions from fact. Perhaps your “research” could be a bit more in depth?

      • 25 range October 22, 2009 at 19:01

        Hey Adrien, FYI, just triple-checked and the Cento does indeed have internal cable routing. The problem is related to the way that the seatstays are used and assembled.

      • 26 Paul June 3, 2010 at 18:20

        Adrien,

        You appear to have a great deal of info on the Wilier brand. I currently live in Italy, and they are beautiful bikes. I had the opportunity to ride the Cento Uno around a parking lot and can think of nothing else. My biggest concern is durability. What have you seen as far as cracks, breaks, and general warranty issues? I was set on teh Le Roi, but now the choice is between the Cento Uno or the Izoard. Cost is a factor, but ride quality and durability come first.

        Thanks.

  21. 27 David October 22, 2009 at 02:27

    Hi Range,

    I think Adrian was referring was the blog you wrote on top page “Lastly, Wilier frames are made in Taiwan by Mitsubishi”. This is not correct. Mitsubishi or one of its subsidiaries may have supplied the carbon fiber material, but Mitsubishi did not “manufacture” the frame.

    I do believe Cento Uno frame (and others) was manufactured/assembled in Taiwan, similar to majority of other top brands today. As I mentioned earlier, due to over 20 years of carbon fiber learning curve (volume), Chinese handy craftsmanship and intelligence for everything high-tech, if a carbon frame that wasn’t made it Taiwan, I would be a little worried.

    Here is a joke but carries some truth in it. We all know “IC” stands for “Integrated Circuits” right? But in Silicon Valley, California, “IC” stands for “Indian Chinese”.

    When I ordered my “yello” colored Cento Uno frame, I waited 6 to 8 weeks for it. The box that was shipped to Ikon Cycle in Sacramento was from Italy. Thus I believe my Cento Uno was at least “color finished” in Italy.

    I almost forgot, Wilier makes two other great frames, Izord and Le Roi. I am not sure if Le Roi is offered in 2010, but Izord will make a great ride. I have a friend races on the Izord and I also know a mechanic for “Specialized” brand loves his Le Roi. My friend who races the Izord in San Jose is one tall strong guy, he has no issue with the Izord at all. He even had a spectacular crash on the Izord and the frame was fine.

    I guess if I wasn’t riding a Cento Uno, I would be riding a “red” color Izord. I really like the shape of the Izord frame, a little “bow” on the top tube, looks like it is ready to leap forward. Check this frame out, it has great geometry and it may be a good choice for you. Mid-price range and it will kick ass for you.

    If I had the money, I will do a Izord too.

    Good luck,

    David in Elk Grove, CA

  22. 28 range October 22, 2009 at 03:14

    Hey David. You’re probably right. I didn’t think about that particular distinction. That being said, it’s not really an area of concern anymore for me.

    I’m getting sponsored by Velocite, an up-and-coming brand made in Taiwan that follows strict EU QA guidelines. I’ll probably get a Helios ISP frame and a Millennium titanium frame. I wanted SRAM Red, but they don’t have it, so I’ll just get DA.

    As for my race bike, Pina Prince or TIME RXR. Those two still top my list. They are about the same price and I’m actually thinking more about the TIME, though I’m surprised that we’ll have to wait until the spring before we get a BB30 version.

    With the release of the Dogma, I think that the Prince will go down in price significantly. It’s already somewhere around $3,400. At around $3,000, the Prince seems like a good deal. Anyway, we will see. This purchase won’t happen before the spring, so I’m not too worried.

  23. 29 David October 22, 2009 at 05:23

    Range,

    If you can get a Prince frame for $3000 in Taiwan, that is a good deal. In USA, they are selling 2008 versions for around $4000. In 2009, Pinarello did improve the frame in some areas, such as replaceable rear wheel hangers. I also think the paint on 2009 Prince is better looking, especially for the front fork.

    If you are going to buy a Prince, buy their “fire” or “red” version, after all, its Italian, right?

    I still think the Wilier Izoard in blue/Lampre color is also a great frame for mid-price range.

    Velocite sounds exciting, I can’t find their website. May be it is too new.

    Good luck with your new effort,

    David in Elk Grove, CA

  24. 30 karesz October 22, 2009 at 07:26

    Could you please send me a link to the cable routing pictures?
    Is it possible to route the cables externally on the current Cento Uno?
    Thanks

  25. 31 karesz October 22, 2009 at 07:29

    BTW, I saw the Cento Uno in person, and it is stunning. I rode many high end bikes, but the Uno is totally different. It is super smooth but solid at the same time. I’m debating about building one up with SRAM Red after all this talk about the Campy 11 shifting issues. I heard conflicting information about the new routing or lack there of for the 2010 models. Adrain, can you please re-confirm that SRAM Red has no shifting issues on the Cento Uno? Also, do I need to get a special adapter for the BB or does it come with the frame?

    Thanks

  26. 33 range October 22, 2009 at 12:27

    Hi David, here is the Velocite site: http://velocitebikes.blogspot.com/ It also links to their online shop.

    For the color of the Pinarello, if I have the choice, I’ll probably get a blue or bluish version, as that’s my fave color.

    @Adrian: I respect that you have had more experience in Wiliers than myself, since I have never owned one nor tested one. However, no matter what you say, these opinions of Wiliers aren’t just my own. I was gearing up to buying a Cento frame when I learned of these issues. So by no means had I anything against this brand.

    I honestly don’t really care from where the carbon fiber stems from. The frames are made and finished in Taiwan, of that there is no doubt. Arguing over semantics is ludicrous. It’s Taiwanese-made, end of.

    No internal cabling issues? Take a look at this article from Bike Radar, which is just one of many that document this fault:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/triestina-cento-uno-frameset-09-34941

  27. 34 range October 22, 2009 at 12:32

    Hi David,
    The Dogma frame sells fro $4,500 here. The Prince frame is slowly creeping down. Even though they are made in Taiwan, they are finished in Italy, so they have to be re-imported back. That doesn’t stop a lot of people from buying them.

  28. 35 karesz October 22, 2009 at 19:33

    I think the cable routing issues are greatly exaggerated. The article you mention is quite old, and they most likely used earlier runs of the Campy 11 shifters. You can find equal number of articles that had no issues with shifting. Also, there are a ton of other well know frames that had similar problems earlier with Campy, Shimano and SRAM. Cervelo is one of them. Wilier does stand behind their product, and they have excellent customer service.

  29. 36 range October 22, 2009 at 19:39

    It’s possible. I find that it’s a non-issue really, speaking for myself, of course. As I have never had any experience dealing with Wilier, I can’t comment on that. I’m kind of done arguing about this since I’m not a Wilier frame owner, nor have I ever been.

    Suffice it to say, that as a prospective buyer, this puts me off this frame. Even if the chance of having problems with a frame are remote, I’m not taking that chance. There are other frames with other issues that I also have eliminated, Wilier isn’t the only one.

    For example, the Kuota KOM has some very thin downward tubes, which is why the frame is so light, making it vulnerable to breakage from bicycle chains.

    That’s not the only reason really.

  30. 37 karesz October 22, 2009 at 20:55

    I don’t feel like we are arguing. It’s nice to have intelligent and informative conversations about bikes. We spend a lot of money on this sport, so it’s good to know the products. I guess what we need to be careful about is the emotional aspects that so many magazine reviews fail to avoid. Misinformation is worse than no information.

  31. 38 range October 22, 2009 at 21:10

    Yeah, but I mean, it doesn’t matter what a manufacturer says, if people report problems with a product, there has to be a cause. I’m not saying that Wilier frames are bad, it’s just a fact.

    Most magazine reviews are always positive, which means that they are biased to rave about the new and expensive bikes. One of the reasons why I research any and all frames that I’m interested in is because I want to make sure that I buy something that hasn’t got any big issues, since I won’t be changing bikes every year. Well, maybe that isn’t true. I probably will be upgrading each and every year, shifting around stuff, buying new frames and getting rid of older ones.

    We do spend a lot of money on the sport and the sport is also filled with a bunch of posers, who are only interested in showing off their $10K bikes.

    That being said, I’m quite happy about what I’m going to do bike-wise. Sponsors tend to make some of the issues go away. Frames are cheaper, a lot cheaper. Top end bikes end up costing a lot less, which is what I’m after in the long run.

    Still, that Cento frame looked amazing. I was holding it and there were no blemishes. It looked perfect. It didn’t have an ISP. Some people hate ISPs, others love it.

  32. 39 David in Elk Grove October 24, 2009 at 15:26

    Hi Karesz (Hi Range too),

    I have to agree with Karesz, I do not find these posts are arguments, I actually appreciate all of your comments. My back ground is from engineering side (semiconductors), I can tell you all kinds of problems occur when developing a new product, and many proven products still experience problems, we just work through them. This is no different than bicycles.

    I can argue that with bicycles, with any brand and any costs, they have problems too. But most of these problems can be resolved with experienced master mechanics, and with reputable manufactures behind their products. From what I’ve seen at Ikon Cycles, Wilier stand behind their products. Try this for yourself. Go to Wilier USA website and write them an email, see how fast they will respond to you. My experience with them is almost right away. Adrian also told me the “factory” contacted him because I wrote them an email. I have not experenced this type of service with any other brands.

    Adrian indeed is a super knowledgable on Wiliers and many other brands too. He is the owner of very successful Ikon Cycles in Sacramento. If you need information, just google “Ikon Cycle in Sacramento”, give him a call and I am sure he will give you pointers on how to set-up your Wiliers.

    I have a Wilier Cento Uno and it is fantastic. I never experienced gear shifting problems. I also test rode a lower-end Wilier Motirolo, and I thought it had better “feel” than a more expensive Cervelo R3, just my opinion of course.

    By the way, what is Velocite’s expansion plans? I am thinking about opening a small (two men only) road bike specialty shop in the San Jose area, do you think Velocite wants to do business here? Anyway, it is only a thought because I am not sure if I want to turn a hobby into a business, and as you know, one can throw tons of money into a bicycle retail shop and nothing may happen! I do want to get out of the sink-or-swim high tech business one day, and bicycle businss is becoming more and more interesting to me.

    When I can save enough money, assume with the blessing of my wife, my next project: install a set of Fulcrum Racing Speed XLR wheels on my Cento Uno. It will look out of this world!

    Racing bicycles indeed is really fun stuff. Good luck you guys!

  33. 40 range October 24, 2009 at 18:04

    Hi David,
    Yes I agree, they aren’t really a flame war and it’s good to hear expert opinions on Wiliers, since I am not an expert nor have I ever claimed being one. Still, my site is well liked by Google so as soon as you type in Wilier cable you come up to it.

    As I understand it, I know that Velocite is actually headquartered in the US. They manufacture their stuff in Taiwan. Unlike other small and medium-sized brands, they manufacture also a bunch of components, like carbon wheels, stems etc. I’ll put you in contact with the owner Victor by referring your email to him. He’ll be very happy to deal with you and your future shop I’m sure.

    Currently, I’m eagerly awaiting to try out their bikes. As sponsorships go, I’m really happy with the deal that I’m getting. It saves me quite a bit of hassle since it puts the prices of frames reachable. I couldn’t spend $3,000 on a frame right now.

    Cheers!

  34. 41 range October 24, 2009 at 18:14

    The bottom line is that I’ll purchase a frameset that hasn’t had any issues, no matter how small they are. Naturally, for any product, there are faults coming off production lines.

    The reason why I keep mentioning the Prince and the TIME RXR Ulteam is because I haven’t found any negative comments about them. I have found some for Wiliers, Kuotas, DeRosas, and other frames that I was researching.

    Ultimately, it comes down to trying the frames out and which suits me the best. However, this isn’t always easy when you aren’t in the EU, US, or Canada. For example, it’s pretty darn impossible to do so in Taiwan. They never have your size in stock and if they order something in, you have to buy it.

    I’m lucky that I’ll be able to try out some of my sponsored frames before deciding, which I’m really looking forward to.

  35. 42 karesz October 24, 2009 at 23:24

    I was fortunate enough to test ride both the TIME RXR Ulteam and the Cento Uno with Campy Super Record thanks to my good friend. No question, they are both over the top super bikes, but if I had to keep only one bike, it would be the Cento. The TIME is amazingly solid, and the bike has no weak or flimsy areas anywhere in the tubing. It’s rock solid and precise with a very stiff front end. The Cento feels just as solid, but in a smoother way. It glides compared to the TIME, and I guess the best way to describe the feeling is comparing it to hammering down on a fire-road (dirt road) on a stiff hard tail vs. a very well tuned light cross country mountain bike. One is not better than the other, but the ride characteristics are a personal preference (I’m sure plenty of others would favor the super stiff TIME). The quality of the build is top notch on both of them.

  36. 43 karesz October 24, 2009 at 23:31

    I meant to say hard tail vs. very well tuned full suspension mountain bike in my comparison. The Cento takes the edge off much better while remaining sure footed. The TIME on the other hand is brutally efficient, a crit rocket ship, great bikes.

  37. 44 range October 25, 2009 at 02:01

    Hmm, food for thought. Have you ridden a Prince? I wonder how it compares. Then again, it all comes down to personal taste and personal style.

    Honestly, the last time I had ridden a bike as hard as this year, I was 17 and riding a steel Columbus Pinarello frame, which I still have, which was mounted on Shimano 105. Thankfully, I still have this frame in storage in Canada, and plan on restoring it to its full glory in a few years when I get back.

    For now, I’m focusing on the sponsored Velocite bikes. One carbon fiber and one titanium frame(1.25kg). Then, it will be the racing bike. It will all depend on relative pricing, as I won’t have an unlimited budget.

  38. 45 David in Elk Grove October 25, 2009 at 02:28

    Hi Range,

    From all the posts, I think you really should ride all three bikes again, Pinarello, Time, and Wilier just to silence the inner voice in you. All three frames are top shelf stuff, at the end of the day, I think you will be pleased with either three choices.

    I found some negative reviews on the Prince, and Pinarello factor support, from roadbikereview.com, and what I’ve been told from dealer in Palo Alto, Ca as I’ve written above (very honest good guys). To be fair, Pinarello’s Palo Alto dealer did not experience any problems with its customer’s frames, but they did told me Pinarello the factory is not always easy to work with, and they do “expect” customers to race the Prince frame, thus not expected to last forever.

    I also heard from my friends that the Prince is a very stiff frame, but it doesn’t feel smooth until higher speed such as 20MPH. I guess it is similar to a Ferrari, at low speeds, a Ferrari feels like a truck, but faster you go, better it will feel. In contrast, the Cento Uno is a all day race bike, smooth and glides, very much a pleasure to ride.

    I really do like the multiple curves and the striking paint job on the Prince. For now, all I can is wish…may be I’ll buy the next iteration of the Prince in several years.

    I am not crazy about the new Dogma, paint job is a bit too “new wave” for me. But note the copies of features that already exist on the Cento Uno, BB30, asymmetrical frame, a curvey tube top tube, etc., and it still doesn’t have a integrated seat mast. Most of all, Cento Uno frame will cost almost US$2000 less. Recently Bicycling magazine did a review on a Dogma with electrical shifters, the MSRP on the bike was more than $16K, is this crazy or what! More like way over priced for a Taiwan made frame with a fancy Italian Avant gard paint job.

    I am not a professional bicycle expert, just a regular middle age guy who likes bicycles. I suggest you hold off your money, try all three frames, before you make a purchase. But then again, I don’t think you will be disappoined with either three frames.

    I was born in Taiwan, spend my childhood there. I’ve also been to Taiwan many times for business and pleasure. I still have relatives there too. I really like its food and culture, plus people there are wonderful too. Have fun, you lucky dude.

    • 46 Kevin January 1, 2010 at 00:05

      I’ve been riding Pinarello Princes for the last two years and it’s the best bike I have ridden to date. My LBS is an authorized Pino dealer and says dealing with them is the same as other manufacturers only that there tends to be a slight lag because there located in Italy. The Prince is plenty stiff, but definitely not as stiff as my previous Cervelo R3-SL and SLC-SL. Those bikes were stiff as crap, which made them excellent sprinters and climbers. I’ve had several Pinarello’s and the only thing I can say is that the design of the wavy fork seems to be what makes the ride very compliant. I test rode a Wilier Cento Uno and found it very comparable to the Prince, but since I already had a Prince with Super Record 11, I couldn’t justify the switch. However, if it had been my first time buying either bike, it would be a tough choice, as they are both very nice. FYI, I have never experienced a single problem with my Campy Super 11 groupo, but then again, I have some very good mechanics at my local bike shops.

  39. 47 range October 25, 2009 at 14:46

    Hi David,
    That’s good advice, though it will be hard to test ride all three bikes. I’ll probably have to find locals who have these bikes to try them out, or even try them out in different sizes. At my LBS, all of the people working there have high end bikes, in S sizes, but it might do the trick. There is a RXR there, an EPS, DeRosa King 3, etc.

    Good to know about the Prince. The TIME is coming out with a BB30 version in spring, which is when I’ll be thinking about purchasing a bike frame like that.

  40. 48 David October 26, 2009 at 01:01

    Hi Range,

    Also add the new 2010 Fuji SST 1.0 to your list. It looks fantastic! Adrian test rode it at Interbike Las Vegas recently, and he said it was very good. Adrian only works with mid-to-high end frames, and he always try to be honest in what he says to his customers, so if Adrian says the new 2010 Fuji SST 1.0 is very good, I believe him. Check it out on Fuji website, it looks like a mix between a Look 586 and Wilier Cento Uno, very nice. Being a Fuji, I am sure its price point will be very reasonable too.

    David

  41. 49 range October 26, 2009 at 01:57

    Good to know. How does it compare to the Giant TCR Advanced? Since it was at Interbike, I guess we’ll have to wait to find out. It does look pretty good, kind of a mix between the Giant and a Kuota.

    Personally, for my race bike, I wouldn’t consider the Giant. Why? Giants are pretty common, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t good, but if I’m going to pay $3,000+ for a frame, I want it to be something special, kind of like my own little Ferrari, which is why I like the TIME RXR. It’s lugged and I won’t have any other lugged frames, it’s 100% made in France, which is impressive.

    The Colnago EPS compares to the RXR I guess, since it’s made in Italy.

    Things also have to do with the price. I expect that the Prince will be cheaper in Taiwan, just because the Dogma retails for $4,500, which leads me to believe that the Prince frame will drop significantly, if it hasn’t already. Honestly, my purchase is months away, so I haven’t even checked prices in Taiwan since the summer.

    I’m pretty stoked about the Velocite bikes. They look pretty good and the sponsor prices make them really attractive. One CF and Ti frame for sure. Then, I’ll think more seriously about my race bike.

    It looks like I’ll have DA on one bike and SRAM Red on the other. Here is what the Ti Velocite Millennium frame will look like:
    http://www.cycletaiwan.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=7169

  42. 50 David October 26, 2009 at 10:31

    Indeed Velocite Millennium is a very nice frame, I like the nice welds on the frame. It looks clean and fast.

    What are your experiences with pedals? Which brand do you prefer: Time, Look, or Speedplay? Currently I am using Speedplay Frogs-TI, I am thinking about trying a pair of Time, but they are kind of expensive too. Adrien had good luck with Time pedals. I like to see Karesz and your opinions too.

  43. 51 range October 26, 2009 at 11:53

    Currently I use Time, but I wouldn’t mind trying some Look Keos. I’ve had no issues with my Time pedals. The system works pretty well.

  44. 52 karesz October 26, 2009 at 19:49

    I’m on Dura Ace Pedals. I like the maintenance free aspects, and the durability of the metal body. I’m not trusting composite pedals even after minor crashes. The cleats are also very easy adn cheap to replace here in the US. I don’t have a lot of experience with TIME or Look pedals though. Speedplay is interesting, but the setup and too much float concerned me. Having said that, I know a lot of riders that like each system equally. It’s almost as personal as choosing a saddle, but I would highly recommend Shimano DA in this case.

  45. 53 Vl November 23, 2009 at 03:50

    A point of view from a racing cyclist.

    This is my second Wilier frame. The first one a 2008 Izoard with Ultegra. Good bike but bad quality: paint fading and easy to chip.
    The next 2009 Cento uno with Dura ace 7900. Fantastic ride qualities, not a smooth gearchange, and bad routing for the rearmech. I am also worried about the lifespan with already play in the headset after 600 miles.
    Also, Wilier are not good in customer service.
    I will certainly not buy another Wilier!

  46. 54 range November 23, 2009 at 11:26

    Thanks VI! Good to hear different opinions from people who actually have Wiliers.

    Personally, I’m getting a sponsorship from Velocite, so I’ll be looking at a TIME or Pinarello only in the spring, since I’ll be getting two bikes, one carbon fiber and one titanium from my sponsors.

  47. 55 karesz November 23, 2009 at 20:36

    I just got a 2010 Izorad and built it up with SRAM Red. The paint quality looks fantastic. I head rumors that it had issues in one batch of the 2008’s, but that paint problem was fixed. I don’t know who you dealt with VI, but Wilier customer service is top notch from my experience (U.S.). As far as paint chips, I would be surprised if it was the case with this frame. I examined this thing very closely. Having said that, carbon frames do chip easily in general. I also have a Look 595 that has some chips in it from minor road debris. You should probably follow Range’s advice and get a Ti bike to race.

    Cheers

  48. 57 range November 23, 2009 at 21:27

    That bike looks amazing Karesz. I have to agree that if you are going to pack on loads of miles, your best bet is to invest in a Ti training bike. They’ll outlast carbon fiber for sure.

    Initially, I wouldn’t hear of it, but when I met some serious bike riders, most of them had a Scandium or Titanium frame to train with, and a carbon fiber bike to race with.

    You can check out Velocite’s Millennium Titanium frame here.

  49. 58 karesz November 23, 2009 at 21:52

    No doubt, Ti is the best material by far. I’ve ridden everything, and if I had to keep one bike for the long run, it would be a Ti probably Moots or Independent Fabrication. For pure racing, CAAD9.

    • 59 Simon Nathaniar December 21, 2009 at 01:18

      Hello Karesz,

      Yes, Ti is a fabulous material – but really don’t you find it only suitable for a bike that’s more ‘plush’ than rush? Long (century + rides) are wonderful on a Ti, but shorter rides and crits they tend to be a little soft?

      I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

      I have a Baum Corretto Ti frame and it’s very, very, very, VERY nice but a little soft for the more aggressive rider/shorter rides/crits.

      • 60 range December 21, 2009 at 01:39

        Hi Simon,
        I agree with your there. For shorter rides, I prefer an aggressive carbon fiber. For longer rides, a Ti frame is great.

  50. 61 range November 23, 2009 at 22:58

    I agree with you there. I don’t really know exactly what I’ll choose as my racing bike. I’ve mentioned the Pina Prince and the TIME RXR Ulteam, but those choices might change if I get other sponsors and/or depending on availability.

  51. 62 David in Elk Grove November 24, 2009 at 01:38

    Do you guys know anything abut Fondriest bicycles? Typical Italian, it looks fantastic but not popular in USA yet. Fondriest could be a nice niche brand to carry if you have a bike shop.

    If I can make some money during next several years, I would open a bike shop for “fun”. I don’t know too many bike shop owners are “rich”, so this is not a project for faint hearted people.

  52. 63 Pete Hajdu December 3, 2009 at 08:57

    I recently purchased a 2008 Cento, I really like the ride, but the only thing is it did not come with the original fork. The person I bought it from said he bought the frame without the original fork for a deal. Anyway, I like the bike and was wondering if you knew where I could find a original fork for it. It currently has a Easton 90 on it.

    Thanks

  53. 64 karesz December 3, 2009 at 22:08

    Pete,

    Where are you located? Is your bike a Cento or Cento Uno? Can you post a picture?

  54. 66 karesz December 6, 2009 at 05:09

    Pete, I might be able to help you out. A friend in CO is a Wilier dealer, so I’ll ask. I’m sure it’s not a problem to get a fork for it.

    • 67 Pete Hajdu December 6, 2009 at 08:18

      I’ve checked all over the globe from Wilier usa to Wilier Italy, no luck! Let me know what you find. It’s purely a matter of looks, the bike rides great. I’m thinking of moving up to the 09 version, any thoughts?

  55. 68 karesz December 7, 2009 at 04:23

    The Cento Uno is a great bike. Even better than mine (Izorad) which is still a pretty sweet ride. Get the 2010, they are out now. This is the 2010 Izorad with SRAM:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BcxrweThUHMDmePCMHgDkA?authkey=Gv1sRgCK3Q-MfDw-v8lwE&feat=directlink

  56. 69 Pete Hajdu December 7, 2009 at 04:26

    Great looking bike! I would love the 2010! Small issue of funds! However, I did find a 09 frame with only a couple of rides on it, asking around $1700. What do you think?

  57. 70 karesz December 7, 2009 at 04:30

    That’s a good price for a Cento Uno. Is it from a reliable source? I do know that the Cento Uno is significantly better than the Cento. Although you can use a regular seatpost, just make sure that the integrated one is not cut too short for your seat height.

    • 71 Pete Hajdu December 7, 2009 at 04:34

      It is from a pretty good source, the guy has a quiver of bikes and works in the industry. The seat mast still has plenty of length left. Should I be concerned about the cable routing issue? Some say that the issue is only problematic with the 11 speed Campy group, I intend on running 10 speed Campy Record.

      • 72 karesz December 7, 2009 at 05:53

        I think all new groups (Shimano 7900 and Campy 11) are sensitive to most internally routed cable setups. I heard about people having issues with the new groups on other frames as well. I don’t want to name them because I don’t have any personal experience with them. I briefly rode the Cento Uno with Campy 11, and I didn’t experience the shifting issue, but I did hear from mechanics that the Campy 10 is a lot less problematic (internally routed).
        I haven’t heard anything bad about Campy 10 on Cento Uno’s.

      • 73 Kevin January 1, 2010 at 00:12

        I’ve run Campy Super Record 11 on a Pinarello Prinec and a Cervelo SLC-SL with zero problems. Must be the frame.

  58. 74 Kim Roberts December 10, 2009 at 01:08

    [Ed. note: This comment was edited. This discussion is civilized. No hateful comments are allowed. I seriously considered deleting it, but since there are some valid points, I included it.]

    How does one draw conclusions of an item simply by reading other people’s opinions? The idea of expressing a viewpoint is that you are speaking from a position of experience. At the very least, a point of view on a consumer product should be based in some hands on experience.

    I rode EVERY bike on my list prior to purchasing the Cento Uno. I’d come across the shifting issue rumours in one review and a couple of EARLY forums (close to the initial release of the frameset), but experienced no such thing when on the bike itself. I questioned the dealer about the issue and his response was that the prototype had a small issue with shiftting friction but that was sorted in production models. He had no reason to lie to me; he sold every brand I wanted to look at and the Wilier wasn’t the most expensive on my list. In all, he was very honest.

    I physically rode Colnago, Storck, Pinarello, Look, Ridley, Cervelo, Time, Lightspeed, BMC, Independent Fabrications, Guru and Wilier prior to making my final choice of the Cento Uno. It was simply the best all round ride.

    It’s a shame for you that you didn’t ride the Wilier – you’ll never know whY you’re missing… But then again, that’s probably a good thing. You’d be heart broken thT you hadn’t done your research properly if you knew exactly how well, how amazingly well the Wilier really does ride.

    • 75 range December 10, 2009 at 02:10

      It’s pretty straightforward for anyone wanting to purchase a high end bike to read what other people have written about it. There are countless review sites and forums on which to check out frames and bikes.

      It’s pretty logical. This isn’t a bike blog and there aren’t any Wiliers where I live in my size so that I can try them out. In fact, I’m lucky that I’m getting a sponsorship and will be able to try them out. Otherwise, I’d have to settle for buying a bike blind, as they’d have to order my size in.

      Wilier haven’t lent me a sample so that I could review it and this isn’t the purpose of this post. This post was written to highlight a problem that MANY people have come across of. In fact, even the people at my bike shop new about it. They hadn’t mentioned it before, but were aware of it when I talked about the Wilier frames.

      I don’t have the luxury of buying blind, so as soon as there is a hint of a possible problem, I’ll have to check out something else.

      Also, your comment was edited. This is a civilized discussion.

  59. 76 range December 10, 2009 at 23:24

    Hey Kim, I actually edited your comment quite a bit. I deleted about 20-25% of it. Also, don’t bother looking for your other comment as I deleted that one.

  60. 77 range December 11, 2009 at 00:12

    @Kim
    I wasn’t really a well thought out argument, you were just basically repeating the same thing you mentioned before and insulting me a bit more. Once again, this isn’t a bike blog. These are facts documented by other users. Even if your Wilier has no problems, that doesn’t stop other owners from encountering them.

    I don’t really know what kind of a bike rider you are, but I ride my bike hard, and I expect it to keep up with me. I don’t have the luxury of having a stable of 4 or 5 different bikes.

    Sure, if you put it down to academic terms, this isn’t really research. It’s more like a peer review, which means that it’s more relevant than if I received a sample bike and reviewed it thoroughly. Why? It gives an idea about a larger pool of bikes. I went through bike blogs and their reviews, as well as what Wilier owners reported on different forums and sites. I think that it gives me a pretty balanced outlook. There is no denying that some Wilier owners have had this issue. This doesn’t mean that every Wilier has these problems, but some of them do.

    My LBS confirmed it. I live in Taiwan, the bikes are made in Taiwan. The owner knows Wiliers quite well and he confirmed the problem. You can say what you will, but this just confirms what I have learned.

    From the discussion here, you will see different opinions. I am 100% certain that there are Wiliers out there that are a dream to ride.

  61. 78 Simon Nathaniar December 21, 2009 at 01:15

    I’ve just read your article and the subsequent comments (yes, all of them!!) and can only say that people report different things because people’s expectations and experiences are different. These are called subjective findings (as opposed to objective findings).

    But you can’t really, honestly say your article is closer to peer review than research – peer review is careful and considered review by experts of an expert examination. What you really have here is a review of several opinions – and that’s very different.

    Of course, the expression of differing opinions is always welcome! What’s difficult is the differentiation between valid opinion of a small group of affected parties, average experience and majority experience. It looks to me like the majority of people haven’t had any issues with this brand/model, it’s a small minority that have had issue – and they are particularly vocal.

    That’s not to mitigate their experience at all, but (and it’s a rather big but) the fact of their experience does not in any way suggest that the majority will suffer the same outcome.

    It appears to me that you’re expressing what is basically an opinion of the authors of the articles you have read. I’m not surprised that others are expressing opposing opinions based on the articles they have read. You’ll never get an accord on this as without empirically measurable data that’s repeatable it’s ALL based on opinion!

    Just my thoughts on what has been an interesting bike entry. Especially for a non-bike blog!

  62. 79 range December 21, 2009 at 01:47

    Hi Simon,
    Of course! I said “research” but I didn’t imply that it was academic research. I just researched a topic that interested me. I should have probably used a different word and yes, you’re quite right that it’s more like a peer review.

    I feel a bit embarrassed about this because this post was never intended to be what it has become. It was just written to highlight a concern I had since I was going to buy a Wilier frame. I thought that it would be good to share what I found out with others.

    Listen, at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion. By no means is mine better than others. For sure, my opinion appears important via Google because of the pagerank of this blog, but in essence, even though I’ve been riding bikes seriously since I was 15, I’m a bit of a neophyte. The last time, before 2008, that I was into bikes, carbon fiber frames were just appearing on the market. I remember Kestrel coming up with some great bikes, but all of my bikes were either steel or aluminum.

    As for my bikes, I’m getting a Velocite Magnus and Millennium through a sponsorship deal, and I’m currently deciding on my race bike, which might be a Pinarello Dogma, though nothing has been decided yet.

    Cheers!

  63. 80 karesz December 21, 2009 at 03:01

    Simon,

    I don’t think that material makes any difference in Crit racing as long as the geometry is good. Stiffness is overrated, and you should not see any “power-loss” from a more compliant frame. It’s all about fit (rider positioning) and bike geometry that affects handling characteristics. If you’re looking for long term durability, nothing beats Ti, and it also tends to stay classy (not outdated) after a couple of seasons. Having said that, I love carbon as well, and I change my bike often. If I could have only one bike, it would be Ti. There are manufacturers that produce fantastic bikes made of different materials.
    So here is the updated look of my latest carbon frame:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/karesz3/Wilier_Izorad?authkey=Gv1sRgCKPP3-6huZuU-wE&feat=directlink

  64. 82 Anthony June 14, 2010 at 23:46

    I just spoke to Cadence Cycling located in Philly. Cadence Cycling is a Wilier Pro Shop authorized dealer. http://www.cadencecycling.com/ Luke at Cadence Cycling said it’s only a problem if a mechanics who install the cabling, doesn’t what they are doing.

  65. 83 rideman July 22, 2010 at 11:38

    Has anyone mentioned how ridiculously far off Pinarello’s claimed weights are? The Dogma was claimed to be 900 grams, but is actually 1250… Just sayin.

    • 84 range July 22, 2010 at 12:55

      Yep, the Dogma is extremely porky, due to the layers and layers of paint to make it all sparkly. I’ve weighed a size 465 in the color 464 with fork, and headset (der hangars etc) and the weight was 1,720g.

      The Pina seatpost is extremely porky as well.

  66. 85 blair August 6, 2011 at 00:29

    i cannot agree with adrien enough. i am a professional bike mechanic. i have been for over 12yrs.i have worked with teams,shops and privately. i have come across so many issues with so many brands over the years. and it is funny that some models remained unchanged for seasons before the issues were addressed.ex:the spez tarmac.yikes.scary!!!
    i ride a pinarello dogma and wilier cento 1. i also read these long reviews about cable friction and was almost put off buying the cento 1. but i thought that in my experience there has never been a problem with a bike i could not resolve.some how i would get around the issue.
    well after building the bike with campy super record 11 i ran it through the gears on the stand. not a problem. but the true test would be out on the road.again,not a problem. the gear changing was crisp and precise. and i barely EVER have to adjust the rear drl tension at all. and even when i do that’s just from general cable stretch.
    i agree to even write a review based on what other people have written makes me scratch my head. i have ridden ever bike under the sun. and the cento 1 is a truelly fantastic bike.
    i do agree that for a taiwan made frame the price is very high. but your also paying for the brand name too. it’s a catch but if you want the best sometimes the high price tag comes with it.
    as one of the other people wrote before. i would much prefer a taiwan made carbon bike than a europe made carbon bike. they have been doing it as long and make so many more bikes per year. they have the process down pat, made all the mistakes before and produce a very high end result. it’s like this. the taiwanese make maybe 100,000 carbon bikes a year. and the european’s 5000(approx numbers only). so who has more experience dealing carbon???not a hard answer.
    if anyone is reading this and thinking about buying a cento 1 i cannot recommend it enough. i really enjoy climbing. and the bike excels at this.i do about 300-500km a week. so i have put my time in on this bike. and it really is superb.
    yes it’s expensive.infact too expensive.but like all things in life the best is usually the most expensive. kind of like toyota and ferrari. really not that much a difference except the price.hahaha!!!which is HUGE.
    if your sitting on the fence.get the bike.you wont be disappointed. and the cable friction issue???what cable friction issue.never even seen it and i have had my cento 1 almost 2 yrs now.
    happy riding!!!

  67. 86 JP September 30, 2011 at 06:00

    Wow, this is quite a discussion on a bike! I have been the owner of a Look 585 for few years, which I found wonderful compared to anything else I tried during these years, but I got tired of the “lug style”.

    So I was in the business for finding a new frameset. As I already got the Zipp wheels and the Campy super Record, I wanted to keep the investment “low” by only changing the frame.

    I have looked at the BMC Team Machine, the new Look 695, the Cervelo S5 but everytime I was looking at the Wilier Cento 1 SL, I could not find a more “sexy” bike. So I got the frameset this week and I am quite curious to see everything mentioned here is true! I will start swaping parts soon and I expect to ride it before winter.

  68. 87 expertcyclist September 30, 2011 at 20:11

    Cool, please write a review when you get a chance.

  69. 88 truth hurts October 26, 2011 at 02:17

    People complain about having carbon bikes made in Taiwan but understand why premium Italy bike builders such as Wilier, Pinarello so on have their frames made in Taiwan is because when it comes to carbon tech and build Taiwan is best in the world. I known it’s hard to swallow that a small Asian country would be so good at such a high tech but think about it, the best computer in the world are also designed and manufactured in Taiwan. I think people get China mixed up with Taiwan. Yes bikes made in China are low quality bikes but carbon bikes from Taiwan is more prestigious then having it made in Europe or US. But then again why people buy $5,000 bikes is for the label not the performance. 99.5% of people never fully use their bikes to the limit, and honestly whatever they do on their expensive bike, a store brand bike will do the same thing but for $200.00. Unless you ride 6 hours a day everyday( what I mean by 6 hours is 6 hours of actual riding not peddling along with your bundles down a bike path) pumping fast as you can, you are not a hard-cord cyclist. And for those of you who argue over a 15lb bike vs 18 lb, You are to weak to be a cyclist. A try strong cyclist will perform just as well with a 25lb bike as with a 15lb bike.

  70. 89 Todd Schenck August 2, 2012 at 22:34

    I’m so bummed. After reading a ton of information on the Cento Uno (including this entire saga 🙂 ), I had looked for quite a while and was able to find a used frameset for sale locally and scooped it up. Unfortunately it is a 55.5cm size L and I need the 53.8cm size M. What a great looking bike though, and I wish badly that I could ride it. I will be keeping my eyes open for a used size M, and unfortunately this L that I have will be finding a new home…. If anyone is interested you can email me at ToddSchenck@gmail.com


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ranjitwithkinginbehand.jpgI'm Range, your host. On the menu, photos, art, stories, entertainment and reviews. Links, maths, education and social issues. I'm in Quebec (Canada) or Taiwan (R.O.C.). Follow me on Twitter.

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