Polyamory Leads to Steve Pavlina’s Divorce

Earlier this year, motivational blogger, writer and speaker decided to try polyamory. This led to his separation and upcoming divorce from his wife. I blogged about this development earlier this year. It turns out that I was totally right. His marriage did implode because he decided to seek other partners. Personally, I think that Pavlina is suffering from a mid-life crisis and wanted to see younger women and “great new partners” to experience new things. His situation, with young kids and a 15-year marriage, could only lead to disaster.

84 Responses to “Polyamory Leads to Steve Pavlina’s Divorce”


  1. 1 blackdove October 27, 2009 at 05:51

    “But an even deeper causal factor beneath that was my commitment to conscious growth. The desire to relate to other people as consciously as possible eventually made it impossible to continue giving my power away to an external structure like a marriage. That was a problem for both of us. For years we fell into the trap of treating the marriage as something more powerful than ourselves, something we must preserve at all costs even when it didn’t make us happy to do so. ”

    Sounds like polyamory led to both people pursuing their true happiness, even if that meant it wasn’t as married people. Maybe “polyamory ruined their marriage,” but it sounds like the marriage was doomed to fail already, and in that sense, polyamory helped them to accept this.

  2. 2 range October 27, 2009 at 12:12

    I don’t know. Initially, a lot of people were dumbfounded why he wanted to try polyamory. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that this was his idea on his terms, and naturally Erin didn’t like it.

    • 3 Brian November 28, 2009 at 02:30

      You shouldn’t make assumptions. Email them if you really want to find out.

      • 4 range November 28, 2009 at 12:32

        Honestly, I don’t really care about what happened for real nor do I care about contacting. I care about what they showed to the public. Personally, I’d keep anything like this private.

        Pavlina is a public person, and since he airs out a lot of the details of his life to everyone, we should have no qualms about our opinions. My personal opinion is that he always seeks approval from others, and has trouble when people don’t give it to him.

  3. 5 Anita October 27, 2009 at 21:53

    Those who declare a desire to open a monogamous marriage must be prepared to see the marriage end if their spouse chooses not to embrace it. In our society we have been led to believe that marriage is a non-negotiable contract, but in today’s world, there are a lot of people who yearn to expand their experience of love and intimacy. They love their partners but yearn for MORE love and MORE connection. It’s hard for many to understand, but it’s often true that this previously unspoken yearning for more has been there for a long time. It’s also likely that the person tried to subdue it when committing to their primary partner/spouse, but many report that this was exceedingly difficult to do, if not eventually impossible.

    Some may call this selfish or greedy (or both), but it is what it is, and as such, the ethical thing to do is to discuss it with their partners before acting on it.

    If this happens, and the partner agrees to try to make it work, tThere’s still a fairly steep learning curve in order to make the mental and emotional adjustment that transcends societal programming. If the partner doesn’t embrace polyamory for themselves, they are to be commended for being willing to walk this path. They give up a lot and understandably ask what’s in it for them to do what has to be done to open the relationship. Can;’t blame them, not at all. Those who hang in there eventually admit that though painful, the process does eventually lead them to be more whole people emotionally who are less dependent on their marriage/relationship for happiness.

    Certainly in order to work and work well, both partners have to agree to embrace polyamory. In some cases the more reluctant partner comes to embrace it after a while, but it’s a real crap shoot as to whether they do or not. The chances of making it work are enhanced greatly by proceeding slowly and allowing sufficient time and devoting lots of energy to educating themselves and talking about what they are learning and how they feel about it.

    The other half of the opening up experience is often painful, but with openness, honesty and sensitivity, it’s usually temporary. Now they have to put it into action. Education and clear communication in advance is crucial yet still not all that is required. This is a time of what is sometimes painful growth, but tenacity and focus on keeping the marriage solid no matter who else is in the picture is indispensable. If the marriage partner is willing to feel the fear and hang in there, many poly/mono couples find that the marriage/primary relationship is stronger and that they are stronger as individuals. But this is not achieved without trust and trustworthiness.

  4. 6 This Steve Guy Seems like a jerk October 28, 2009 at 07:48

    That is all.

  5. 7 Chris October 28, 2009 at 13:13

    You seem to be sure that you know more about this guy’s relationship than he does. You’re certain the poly thing was his idea and he forced it on his wife, etc.

    Seems like you might have your own issues here.

  6. 8 range October 28, 2009 at 16:03

    Nope I don’t have any issues, but it was easily deducible that Pavlina would run into problems when he went from a long term monogamous relationship to a polyamorous one. I don’t know anything about their relationship, but it was just a matter of time. Unless both partners agree on this from the get go, there will be issues.

    I have nothing against polyamory, but it isn’t for me. I’m happily married with a redhead.

    No, I don’t think that he forced it on his wife, but I’m sure that there must have been some doubt in Erin’s mind when she agreed to this. Which is why they are getting divorced.

    Anyway, from the comments, the reasons stated for Steve trying polyamory were a bit strange. Oh, I can’t eat raw food with Erin, so I’ll find someone who does.

  7. 9 John October 30, 2009 at 01:21

    Always thought Pavlina was a bit creepy and self-serving anyway. First the polyamory stuff, then this divorce business.

    Look, you can focus on your own personal growth, that’s great, but what about the growth of your kids?

    At this point, their kids are far more malleable than any adult is. I think this just a bunch of selfish decisions he’s trying to justify and rationalize by wrapping them in the cloak of personal development.

    Sad, sad, sad.

  8. 10 range October 30, 2009 at 02:56

    Hi John, I agree.

    Like I mentioned before, I’ve got nothing against polyamory, as long as all people involved know the score. It’s a lifestyle choice. I find nothing appalling about it. I just know that it isn’t for me. I’ve got my redhead wife, and that’s all I need.

    I’ve read tidbits here and there about Pavlina. I have been reading his blog for years, but since he started his polyamory thing, I’ve been less interested. The whole talk about vibrations and stuff doesn’t really interest me. His most recent series of posts were also uninteresting.

    I do like his posts about raw food, polyphasic sleeping, and the way that he got his degree extremely quickly.

    I read that before Erin, Pavlina didn’t really have that many partners and/or girlfriends, which is one of the reasons why Erin agreed to polyamory.

    Naturally, this is all just hearsay. We don’t really know what happened, but suffice it to say that polyamory led to their impeding divorce. If he hadn’t done this, he would be married.

    Right off the bat, this move seems like a midlife crisis sort of thing. He wants to explore and give his love to different people, and receive it as well. I believe that once he gets off from the initial high, he’ll regret his actions.

    Then again, it’s always possible that he’ll embrace it and live happily for the rest of his life.

  9. 11 N October 30, 2009 at 05:14

    No no, he says it was RAW FOOD that led to his divorce, not polyamory.

    And he may be right.

  10. 12 range October 30, 2009 at 12:13

    I think I read about that as well.

  11. 13 range October 30, 2009 at 12:14

    If it did, it’s a bit idiotic though.

  12. 14 bman November 2, 2009 at 20:29

    Steve Pavlina seems to have gotten himself entangled with some sort of cult.

    Most of the posters in his forum are of those ‘you create your own reality’ types even if it means ignoring very important things that are beyond their control.

    The moderators have becomed nazis and basically Steve has gone spiritually decayed since the signs of polyamory experimentation was mentioned.

    This is not the steve i used to know from indie game development times. He’s totally changed. I think some cultish brainwash delusional positive thinkers have gotten to him to the point he’s unable to separate reality and the delusional world anymore.

    Added to the fact his barrage of cult-like worshippers do not tolerate reality news being posted because it would be deemed ‘negative’. You will be accused of fear mongering and upset their delusional ‘you create your own reality’ deception propaganda.

    Positive thinking is good but when you go beyond the reality that you can control, it becomes delusional and denial, which is exactly what happens to most people in that forum.

    These people need to start waking up. Steve has spiritually decayed and obviously it has affected those close to him.

  13. 15 range November 2, 2009 at 21:12

    Hi, I appreciate your comment. I think that it’s part of the “faking it until you make it” thing. I was like that years ago. It’s best to stay grounded in reality.

    Concerning Pavlina, I don’t know him all that well nor do I know the exact situation, however I think that we can easily deduce what happened, or at least part of what happened.

  14. 16 bartong November 3, 2009 at 07:43

    Yeah … I concur with the whole polyamory leads to steve’s divorce lines of thinking.

    His blog was really pretty cool a number of years back, but then it began to be less and less useful. To me, it seems like the focus on helping others has dwindled and the focus on creating steve’s personal “reality” has increased. With the shift in focus came a decrease in usefulness.

    Also, I get bugged at the lack of groundedness steve and pavlinafans display.

    Lets cut the new-age hippy crap. Take a look at the meta-story. If you continually decide to emphasize your personal path, purpose, and desires (whatever they might be) especially at the expense of your spouse’s – of course you will drift apart. It’s called selfishness, no matter how enlightened you want to spin it. You want to go this direction, they want to go that direction, so you separate.

    If you perpetually build up your partner and emphasize your relationship, it builds and becomes stronger.

    Having sex with other chicks qualifies as divergent goals.

    It’s not like we have issues that we’re projecting here. I’m just noting that a fairly popular internet self help guru doesn’t really have the grasp on the smart-life-tips as many seem to believe.

  15. 17 range November 3, 2009 at 08:48

    I was actually quite surprised when I read how expensive it is to attend his workshops and buy his DVDs. I guess he’s trying to cover some costs. $600 to attend a workshop and $300 for a DVD set!

  16. 18 Duff November 4, 2009 at 08:55

    Yea, I predicted it too, and even mentioned my skepticism in his forum (months before he banned me for a critical post against Eben Pagan who he now endorses).

    Seems straightforward to me too. When I mentioned the details to my girlfriend, who previously dated polyamorously, she said that it was obvious that wouldn’t work out for it almost certainly wasn’t Erin Pavlina’s idea.

    Again, this is speculation, but Occam’s Razor applies, and polyamory and excessive selfish help do seem to be the reasons for many relationships decaying in “conscious” communities. Maybe those conservatives do have a point about marriage after all, albeit quite exaggerated.

  17. 19 range November 4, 2009 at 11:14

    Hey Duff,

    Yep, I agree with that. I perused his latest post and it’s getting a bit ludicrous. Still, people out there like him and are willing to pay lots of money to attend his workshops.

  18. 20 Molly November 16, 2009 at 09:39

    I’m a relative newcomer to Steve’s & Erin’s websites. Can’t remember when I came across his first — think I was Googling “30 days to success” and found Steve’s. Up ’til then I hadn’t read anyone’s blog about turning blogging into business income and, fascinated, I read tons of his posts.

    Over the years it was interesting to me — when he blogged about becoming a vegan instead of “just” a vegetarian, he seemed to shout, “This is IT!”

    When he did his 30-day raw diet, he seemed to shout, “This is IT!”

    When he did his 30-day juice feast, he seemed to shout, “This is [almost-but-not-quite] IT!”

    When he “discovered” polyamory, he very definitely shouted, “This is IT!”

    (Any of you see a pattern here?)

    And poor Erin has now spent a year attempting to lose weight — no doubt trying to compete against a bevy of Las Vegas beauty queens.

    Sorry guys, but from a monagamous married mom’s point of view, if after nearly two decades together, plus marriage and children, plus a very financially lucrative entrepreneurship, a guy wants another woman (women?) to plug up that inescapable void in his life and create happiness for him……well, he may as well take drugs or get drunk. No mere woman (raw foodist or not) can help Steve find happiness or peace.

    It’s not that his needs are too deep or unusual. It’s simply that he has become an ardent self-worshiper. He is his own god, so now he believes he can do as he wishes….so, to hell with the kids and what his selfishness will inevitably teach them about how to treat their own mates in the future. To hell with Erin and the fact that she’s put up with his increasing selfishness all these years. She has become nothing to him except a stepping stone toward his perception of success.

    Foolish, stupid, selfish man.

    • 21 Brian November 28, 2009 at 02:10

      Thanks. That was well-written and poignant

      • 22 Corinna June 17, 2010 at 16:32

        I totally agree with Molly, Duff and Brian, Range and others. Molly, you hit the nail on the head! I ran into a guy I dated briefly about twelve years ago. He had his head up in the clouds back then, and made some rude comments to me back then, which is why i broke up immediately…(such as: “You look good in that dress, but just come with me to the gym, and we’ll get you looking perfect”….!!!); he was into positive stuff and personal growth back then….but when i ran into him a month ago, he had become really creepy in those twelve years!!!

        He couldn’t stop talking about positive gurus, the law of attraction, trading stocks by astrology, how to make millions (…eventually…), and meditating, praying to ‘his’ god daily for help on the stocks, and spending thousands dollars following the true enlightened positive new age path, the secret knowledge etc crap crap crap on….In the one hour we talked, he didn’t let me get a word in edgeways! he was beaming and told me he was so glad to run in to me again, that his stars said he’d meet his soulmate this year, that he has so much sexual energy (…ewwww!!!!), and that he actually wished i had more of this other astrology sign in me so i would be more sensual in the bedroom, and thus be his ideal soulmate for this year! needless to say, i gave him all the hints that i wanted nothing to do with him! during our coffee together, he continually cut me off in conversation, never listened to my side or story, and we only were talking for a few hours! nothing had changed in the twelve years…i still didn’t find him sexually attractive, despite his boastful claim that ‘there’s more where that came from!’ (again, ewwwww!!!!)

        i don’t care about guys who are after millions of dollars, building wealth , being selfish, thinking of their own sexual satisfaction and fulfilment, and well, it so reminds me of steve pavlina…..

        crazy horses for courses, i say!

        give me the more traditional, genuine men, who don’t have their head full of some pumped up self-importance, thinking they have a special message to teach the poor masses and make millions off them by having seminars etcetera……we all know what’s good for ourselves…without some selfish nerd.

  19. 23 Kelly December 3, 2009 at 22:11

    Steve made a common mistake. He thought an open marriage would make his marriage better. If you go back and read the reasons why he wanted an open marriage, it’s because he wasn’t satisfied with his marriage to begin with. He even says he brought up divorce before they decided to try open marriage.

    Open marriage can’t fix a broken sexually monogamous marriage.

    Why?

    Because open marriage is a lot of extra work. You spend many more hours working through relationship issues in an open marriage than in a sexually monogamous marriage. Those hours can be very draining because they often involve intense emotions or painful feelings.

    I know this from personal experience. My spouse and I have been openly married for over 25 years. We are happy with our relationship, and we plan to spend the rest of our lives in an open marriage.

    For us, the benefits of open marriage outweigh the extra work.

    We get to enrich our lives with multiple lovers. Having multiple lovers is important to us because we are both bisexual. Open marriage allows us to fully experience and express ourselves.

    Moreover, all that extra relationship work we do helps us grow. We have become better at being relationship partners, and we have become better at dealing with relationship issues, because we have put in the extra time and effort to get better. Practice makes perfect.

    • 24 range December 3, 2009 at 23:36

      I agree with you Kelly, though I can’t comment that much about open marriages, since I’ve been happily married for almost a decade. Still, I do agree that Steve made a mistake. Basically, it sounds like he should have experimented more when he was younger before getting married.

  20. 25 Aaron December 4, 2009 at 21:08

    I agree with Kelly.

    And that I do agree that he does seem to need approval from others. Just look at his facebook and twitter, does a self-improvement guru really needs to make so much unnecessary updates about his private life?

    We all worship something, if its not God, its probably ourselves, our ego or money etc. And I do feel he has become a self-worshipper, and from his blog posts, this is not at all surprising. In his mind, its just an endless pursuit of personal growth at the expense of everything else.

    And unfortunately he does have a cult-like following, that seems to approve and “like” all his facebook updates, and defend his views…and that is fine, but just scary.

    I will still read his blog posts as theres still much value in them, but I have lost my respect for him.

  21. 26 therry December 4, 2009 at 22:31

    I don’t believe it when a man says he cannot express all his love to just one woman, so he has to share it to different women (?). Ask any woman and they will say that that is a complete bullshit.

    In my opinion, Steve just doesn’t want to love his wife anymore. He wants out from the marriage and he is justifying it in every way he can, creating excuses and seeking supports from his die-hard fans.

    Shame, I used to think he was pretty good. But I guess this has gotta be one of those motivational-speakers’ diseases – we think their lives are so perfect until we find out they’re just really, really good bullshit artists.

    Sorry for the profanities but as a woman I feel really annoyed by someone like Steve, who proclaim that he’s a self-help guru who can change people live, when in fact he’s only saying, “Quit your job, be like me, write motivational shit and you will be rich, just like me.”

    Imagine all of those die-hard fans of his following his every move and afterwards realising how screwed up Steve is and how he’s made their lives screwed up as well?

  22. 27 range December 4, 2009 at 23:47

    Hi Aaron, thanks for your comment. I actually have lost some respect for Steve. I used to find some of what he’s done quite amazing, the college bit, the polyphasic sleeping experiments, as well as his forays into raw food. No matter what he say, separating a family will always have repercussions. No matter how much of a “friend” he is with Erin, he no longer lives with them and he’s no longer there for his kids.

  23. 28 StevesaMan December 8, 2009 at 11:42

    Did anyone see that Lori Painter he did a Raw food video with? I imagine she would be the catalyst lol. Search her name on youtube and see the bikini footage OMG!!! No freakin wonder!

  24. 29 range December 8, 2009 at 12:35

    Hi Steve, no I didn’t, but I just googled her and I can imagine what happened. It’s really hard for men to resist gorgeous women, even after years with the same women. That is probably another factor why.

    I can only think about this with my own marriage in mind. Sure, we’ve had ups and downs, but no one ever cheated. That doesn’t mean that we can’t look at other people, but there’s always a line that we never cross.

    There is a sort of empathy, a twinning that develops over time, after having spent so much time with another person, a person that initially isn’t part of your family. I’ve probably spent more time with my wife than anyone else.

    I find myself using her expressions, and she does the same, and this isn’t done on purpose. Anyway, I’m happily married.

  25. 30 Jonathan Lockwood December 9, 2009 at 19:25

    I have to say that, from the beginning, I called this one too. Yes, I think Steve Pavlina is one interesting individual, and my wife and I enjoy his blog (and Erin’s) quite a lot. It was my opinion that, when he started going down the polyamory path, his motivation was not necessarily limited to what he revealed.

    I too saw the Raw Food video and couldn’t help but laugh when the girl began questioning him about polyamory. When the scene panned wide, I noticed Erin had stepped out of the room.

    That said, I think this goes a bit far: “We don’t really know what happened, but suffice it to say that polyamory led to their impeding divorce. If he hadn’t done this, he would be married.”

    This is just not something you can say with any certainty. As others have suggested, the fact that Steve had an interest in pursuing other women was a likely indicator that he wasn’t getting what he wanted from his marital relationship. So isn’t it true that he might not be married anyway? Isn’t it true that his marriage might have ended sooner had they not decided to allow this exploration?

    To be clear, I thought the whole thing was weird, and while I love his openness, I question the wisdom of having exposed everything so vividly to his audience. I too have concern about the children and don’t know if Steve actually yet understands the ramifications for them.

    But, from my consideration of his writing/videos/podcasts, I can’t accuse him of anything sinister. This is a guy who, by his own admission is pretty socially and emotionally awkward. That combined with his profound commitment to personal development and out-of-the-box living, led to a choice that we’d have to admit was “innovative,” even if it also seemed outrageous and reckless to us.

    While we could call it “a stupid experiment gone wrong,” I think we also have to consider that his marriage might have ended anyway. While I’m quite sure I would never do such a thing, I have to at least give him credit for (perhaps) making one more attempt to save it.

    • 31 Kelly December 11, 2009 at 12:13

      Johnathan said:
      “While we could call it ‘a stupid experiment gone wrong,’ I think we also have to consider that his marriage might have ended anyway.”

      If Steve did see open marriage as an experiment, that was another mistake. (I mentioned his mistake of thinking open marriage could fix a broken marriage in an earlier post.)

      People who approach open marriage as an experiment won’t last at it. An ‘experiment’ suggests open marriage is something to try, and if it doesn’t work out, drop out and return to sexual monogamy. But open marriage is something that never just “works out.” Open marriage requires extra relationship work for the entire duration of the marriage. People who approach open marriage as an experiment simply won’t have the kind of motivation needed to keep putting in that extra effort year after year.

      Although I’ve been in a very satisfying open marriage for over 25 years, I’d never recommend that anyone else try it. If someone has to be encouraged to try open marriage, that person won’t have the motivation needed to keep it going. If someone is naturally drawn to open marriage because it feels right deep inside, then I don’t need to offer encouragement. That person will try it anyway.

      Don’t waste your time trying open marriage as an ‘experiment.’ Spend that time getting to know yourself. If you’re still intensely drawn to open marriage, then take the time to find a partner who feels the same way.

      Kelly

  26. 33 range December 9, 2009 at 20:06

    Hi Jonathan,

    You make some good points. I agree that there must have been something going on for him to seek out polyamory. It’s quite possible and probable that there is some underlying problem that isn’t apparent to us since we aren’t exactly involved in this situation.

    I believe that his attempt at polyamory just exasperated the situation, whatever it was. It didn’t make things better. For all of their talk of being friends and understanding, I think that it’s possible that the passion might have gone out of their marriage. I only say this because if this would happen to me, my partner informing me that she wanted to try polyamory or open marriage, I’d be extremely angry because I love her and none no other.

    Anyway, one of the problems of exposing yourself to the public opinion of the internet is that they will make up their own minds about what happened. My guess is that Steve constantly seeks approval of his audience, and that his die-hard followers will approve what he does, no matter what it is.

  27. 34 Ani December 21, 2009 at 21:31

    Steve’s comment that his marriage ‘structure’ had become more important than their own individual happiness says it all really. Marriage is MEANT to be bigger than the individuals, and this level of commitment isn’t meant to make you happy ALL the time – it’s hard work but the rewards to both participants are usually worth it.

    Steve seems focused on individual happiness at the expense of his marriage. His wife agreed to the move to polyamory, albeit after his discussion of divorce as an alternative. But in the end, if you don’t value the structure you’ve built, it crumbles.

    What bothered me most, after his obvious disregard for his marital commitment, was his insistence on justifying his actions via putting down anyone who didn’t agree or understand as ‘unenlightened’. That’s where he lost me.

    • 35 Kelly December 22, 2009 at 02:36

      Some people see a commitment to marriage as meaning partners stay together no matter what until death separates them. They even stay together if they relationship is troubled or unhappy.

      Other people see commitment to marriage as meaning partners stay together while the relationship is healthy and beneficial to both of them. When the relationship is no longer healthy and beneficial to both partners, it’s time to move on to healthier relationships.

      Both points of view have risks.

      Staying together no matter what means risking decades in an unhappy relationship. Science has shown that spending many years in an unhappy relationship is bad for your mental and physical health. If you’re in an abusive relationship, it can be deadly. But even if it’s not an abusive relationship, it’s still bad for you and…well…life is short.

      Staying together only as long as love lasts means risking never having a longterm relationship or a mature love with someone. All relationships have problems eventually. If you’re quick to leave as soon as problems arise, you could end up alone and looking back on your life with regrets.

      Sometimes it’s best to hang in there and work things out so you can be happy again. Sometimes it’s best to go your separate ways and find happiness elsewhere. It’s not always easy to figure out which path to take. That’s a good time to seek the counsel of family, friends, and professional helpers.

      • 36 range December 23, 2009 at 00:49

        Great comment Kelly. I agree wholeheartedly. Every situation is different. I know that I’ve had my ups and downs in my marriage, but I’ve come to realize that I don’t want anyone else. Being without her makes me unhappy.

      • 37 yeah right November 17, 2010 at 12:11

        Just because people are unhappy *right now* in a marriage does not mean the marriage is not healthy or beneficial to them. Unless you are arguing that marriage is never healthy.

        By the way, bisexuality doesn’t mean you *have* to be with both a man and a woman. It just means you *could* be with *either* a man or a woman.

        I spent years around polyfolk and it was always bi people or gay people or trans people or fat people or ugly people or socially awkward people, not the kind of people who tend to fit into the mainstream and have the widest range of potential partners available to them. I am not judging. I was one of the socially awkward. Still am. But polyamory doesn’t fix that stuff. It’s just a way to avoid it, to downplay what makes you different from other people and keep you from ever completely coming to terms with it.

        I don’t have time for five boyfriends and I sure as hell don’t have time to be some guy’s somethin-somethin on the side. I deserve a love of my own and not one that I have to schedule for two days a week, if I’m lucky, since he’s so terribly busy with his “other loves” and all.

        If you have a lot of love to give? Give it to your partner, give it to your family, give it to your friends. You do not have to screw everything under the sun. Not even one other person. It’s just not necessary.

        Humanity’s capacity for self-delusion is infinite. That’s one thing I’ve definitely learned in my life. It leaves me unafraid of calling bullshit when some white-lighter comes along with a stupid story about how they’re so much more enlightened than anyone else.

        Have fun. I give you another five years at most.

      • 38 yeah right November 17, 2010 at 12:13

        “Unless you are arguing that marriage is never healthy.”

        Anger. Unless you are arguing that ANGER is never healthy. Neither, apparently, is blog-commenting too late in the evening. >_<

    • 39 Molly December 23, 2009 at 21:16

      “What bothered me most, after his obvious disregard for his marital commitment, was his insistence on justifying his actions via putting down anyone who didn’t agree or understand as ‘unenlightened’. That’s where he lost me.”

      Sad, isn’t it, when the people we peg as “leaders” cannot win an argument (and/or prove their position is right) until they devolve into name-calling or labeling.

  28. 40 range December 21, 2009 at 21:37

    I agree with you Ani.

  29. 41 Observer January 4, 2010 at 06:06

    Now that Steve has divorced from his wife, he is saying that his 2010 focus is adventuring into sexual role-playing. He is finally showing his true character as a complete narcissist. I feel bad for his kids.

  30. 42 range January 4, 2010 at 11:54

    Yeah I was totally shocked by that one as well. BDSM is pretty serious and I find it strange that he confesses being into it.

    • 43 yeah right November 17, 2010 at 12:16

      Joining the military is pretty serious too, but nobody who does it ever has to be ashamed of themselves.

      I may think polyamory is bullshit, and I’m not actually into BDSM (a little hand-spanking once in a while never killed anybody, long as I consent to it, though), but when done properly it’s an interesting way to learn about consent and power. Naturally, if you’re not a deep thinker nor a thinker-outside-the-box, it won’t be for you.

      About the only way I’m concerned for his kids in this regard is that they’ll run across his articles and go “EEEWWWWWW!” No one wants those kinds of images of their parents branded into their minds.

  31. 44 Anke January 6, 2010 at 08:18

    just read Steve’s first January post and was annoyed about his manipulative wording – apparently if you don’t agree with his sexual pursuits, you are not ‘mature’. Plus he is flogging a Pick Up Artist workshop – what the? Had a look at the guy’s website, and all it is about is meeting gorgeous women. Ok, why not, but I don’t see that as any more spiritual than meeting anyone at all, really, men, women, ugly, beautiful, etc etc.I’m sure some info about meaningful relating would be welcomed by almost everyone, but I don’t think polyamory as shown by Steve at this stage is helping that.
    I had a nagging doubt when Steve started talking about polyamory and relating it to spirituality – well, no trace of the spiritual tangent left in this latest blog. I would have wished he kept this one to himself, to be honest. If he would really have wanted to explore this for the benefit of his readers, he might have waited till he had some experience and then blogged about the ramifications it had for his spirituality. Hope he doesn’t publish a video of himself in full pursuit of his polyamory BDSM threesome 😉

  32. 45 range January 6, 2010 at 12:46

    Pick up Artist workshop? That’s total BS. I can’t believe that he’s having one of those. The whole BDSM issue is so bizarre that I’m almost speechless.

  33. 46 Scotty Stevens January 13, 2010 at 06:51

    His Facebook comments are now surreptitiously boasting about his new-found sexual escapades, akin to a virgin that has just experienced his first time.

    I’m amazed at the whole thing. I will find it hard to take him seriously from now on. I mean, as males, we are driven to spread our seed and procreate. But the ultimate existence for humans is surely to pair-off and have a family.

    I discovered his blog a couple of years ago, and although I don’t agree with everything he writes about (new age hippie stuff, subjectivity, spirituality ‘oneness’ nonsense, etc), he is certainly a disciplined man, and I especially enjoyed his polyphasic sleeping article series.

    Okay, maybe he’s feeling like he’s a successful man, now (which he most certainly is) and doors have opened up for him – women no doubt being one of them. Maybe he feels he is growing more than his wife/ex-wife, and is ready to move on. Something best done BEFORE you pair-off, but nevertheless, he obviously feels the time is right to move on. I think this is normal; although it could be done more respectfully OUTSIDE of a successful blog.

    But, when there are children involved, that’s a completely different thing. To bring children into this world, surely, carries with it paramount responsibility and accountability. The onus is on parents to pack every ounce of goodness into their kids to ensure they have the best chance of surviving/advancing in this world, because let’s face it, their minds are SO VERY impressionable.

    As a self development blogger, you’d think he’d have it all sewn up. But alas, we now will have more kids in this world devoid of their required, optimum environment.

    And if that isn’t bad enough, he’s making it all public on his blog, free for his kids to see?! The website says Daddy is now going to be having lots of different girlfriends instead of just Mummy?! Breath-taking.

    And then the piece de resistance: BDSM. Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m no prude. I like s@xy time. And I constantly strive to make it fun for my girlfriend and I. But I think their are boundaries that one should stay within – as there are with alcohol, drugs, food – anything. I just think that BDSM is crossing the line. Of course, I could be wrong.

    I’m surprised I’ve left such a lengthy post on a stranger’s blog. This has all hit me by surprise, really. After receiving his blog updates about sub-dom, etc, I typed in ‘steve pavlina bdsm’ into Google to see what everyone else’s take was, and I found your blog – a good one one it is too, Range, good sir.

    So I’m interested in this whole thing from a self development standpoint. And, to be completely honest, I think these are massive backward steps for Steve Pavlina.

    But as I said: I could be wrong.

    To freedom,

    Scotty

  34. 47 range January 13, 2010 at 12:26

    I am as surprised and shocked as you are. He’s totally lost his way. I discovered him a few years ago as well. While I don’t adhere to his new age hippy philosophies, I admired certain things that he did. I’ve lost respect for him.

  35. 48 Johnso February 12, 2010 at 16:37

    The angry anarchist just wrote about this today. I put his website in the box there and the article should be on the main page. I liked his point of view.

  36. 49 Sara February 19, 2010 at 18:25

    Ok so I’m a bit behind on the Steve Pavlina news. Been reading all that I can to catch up (thanks range!), and I’m both fascinated and disgusted.

    I had been a regular reader back in about 2008 ever since I discovered his article on how to be an early riser. He was the one who got me interested in reading up on personal development techniques and classics in the first place.

    For that, I’m really grateful…he saved me at a really low point, when I needed practical solutions.

    Then I stopped visiting his site when I felt I had enough of personal development, and wanted to apply everything I learned instead of reading and discussing.

    That was around the time when he announced he was going poly and Erin gave the “go ahead.” At the time I just remembered thinking, “This open marriage is entirely his idea. It won’t benefit his wife ONE BIT – even though she thinks it’s going to be some incredible growth experience.”

    It really bugs me how people like to disguise their sexual intentions as “spiritual growth.” Perhaps it’s a little too close to home because I used to be close friends with a guy just like Steve.

    I saw the way my friend treated his girlfriend, and how he would hurt her emotionally by introducing other women into the relationship in the name of “personal growth.” He said it would move her past her comfort zone, and make her a better person and ultimately a better girlfriend.

    The kicker? The one fantasy his gf had was to be with one man who loved only her! To make her feel absolutely special. But after multiple positive spins and brainwashing by my friend, she let that fantasy go, for the sake of keeping him and ‘growing’ as a person.

    It’s saddening really. She’s simple-minded, slightly overweight (reminds me of Erin), has low self-esteem, and has invested 5 of her prime youth years with my friend. It’d be hard for her to start over with another guy. He also makes it hard for her to leave, because he’s so manipulative with his words.

    He also tried to involve me in a 3some, all in the name of “love.” But I saw through all his positive spin bullsht and decided I had enough.

    So yeah the whole Steve & Erin divorce really touches a nerve. I really just wish people were more HONEST with themselves and others, instead of justifying their actions as an act of self-growth.

    Anyways, this is an old post but thought I’d share how I felt. I feel relieved I’m not the only one who also notices the disturbing changes in Steve.

    • 50 Scotty Stevens February 19, 2010 at 19:13

      You’re definitely not alone, Sara.

      Not to seem like b@tching behind the man’s back (I mean if he puts himself on a pedestal as a guru..?) but there is no grace about his chosen path, and his commentary of it. I’m a Facebook friend of his (never met him and no history), and his status updates are of a teenage boy who has just lost his virginity. It’s quite amazing some of the things he is saying, and the validation he is receiving from his groupies.

      Shame.

      Respect,

      Scotty

  37. 52 range February 19, 2010 at 19:03

    Hi Sara,

    I liked your comment.

    Steve has gone off the deep end in my opinion. He’s openly declared that he’s a “Dom”, meaning that he seeks “submissives” or slaves in BDSM roleplay. It’s one thing about experimenting, it’s another when you shout it out on your blog for everyone to see. His constant attention-seeking and approval-seeking has gotten to me.

    A bit of spice in the bedroom isn’t bad, but it makes me wonder why exactly he split up with his wife. Maybe she didn’t feel like roleplaying his fantasies, who knows?

    Anyway, I liked Steve’s experiments with polyphasic sleeping, raw food, and other stuff that were really interesting.

    I’ve stopped reading now and I couldn’t care less about his new BDSM lifestyle.

  38. 53 amy o March 5, 2010 at 09:12

    If you go back and read some of Erin’s early blogs, she writes about her experience in high school with an abusive boyfriend (both emotionally and physically, if I remember correctly).

    Add to that an emotionally immature young man with little experience with women until he meets a girl on the internet (Steve and Erin met online).

    A young man with no relationship experience meets a girl with an abusive relationship in her past.

    His pattern is to fall head over heels in love, give tremendous amounts of physical affection (Steve is a self-described “physical affection whore”), and try to become as close to one person as possible.

    A semi-attractive, slightly overweight, intelligent girl with an abusive relationship in her past– why wouldn’t she find herself attracted to someone so “into” her? As Jane Austen points out, few people have the courage to fall really in love without encouragement– so it shouldn’t be suprising that Erin fell in, too.

    In the beginning, no intent to bamboozle on either side. Just two fairly young people with not much (or not much good) experience in relationships.

    Are we to imagine that Erin, a girl with an abusive relationship in her past, would blithely skip down the BDSM path with her husband? Is it too much to assume that the trouble started there (although Steve didn’t blog about it at the time)?

    Here’s the timeline in short:
    S– “I have so much love to give!” “I don’t see how Erin and I
    could get any closer without becoming one person”….
    “Maybe we have to get divorced to grow”…
    “I know–polyamory!”….(no response for a while from Erin)
    “Nope–we’re giving to much power to the marriage structure!
    Divorce is the answer!” (they’re so close they’re almost
    one person, and they can’t figure out how to make an open
    marriage work?….)
    “BDSM is the way to enlightenment!”

    …..and Erin buys a gun a starts taking shooting lessons.
    (she blogged about this–and posted a video of herself at
    the shooting range).

    I will admit that Steve has been extremely shrewd to wait about posting the more risque stuff until he was sure that the majority of his readership was composed of completely uncritical blind followers. Easy enough to do when you can ban any critical persons from your forums–just count up the remaining forum members, and when you hit the critical mass of uncritical followers…do whatever you want.

    But does he really think all of his readers are that incapable of reading between the lines?

    @Range–thanks for posting and providing a place for those of us who had been reading Steve to write about something that clearly bothers a lot of us. I agree– what Steve does in his personal life is his business. But I do worry about the hordes of uncritical (and probably young) followers.

    @Kelly–thank you for posting so honestly and straightforwardly about open marriage. I had always had a somewhat suspicious, not very good opinion about open marriages until I read your post. May I say how much I respect and admire your hard work and dedication to making your open marriage work? Really inspiring–makes me think I shouldn’t whine about problems in my marriage since I only have one person to deal with:)

    Respectfully,
    Amy O in Yokohama

  39. 54 range March 5, 2010 at 10:17

    Thanks for your comment Amy!

  40. 55 Scotty Stevens March 5, 2010 at 23:32

    I just found this today on Steve’s blog (another critic of his new direction posted a link to it, and it’s a few weeks old):

    http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2010/02/broadcast-your-desires/

    Amazingly, he’s named his slave, linked to her Facebook page, and gone into detail about how they met, their similarities, and how they’ve fallen for each other, etc, etc. Of course, there’s plenty of ‘yummy’ this and ‘smoochie’ that. Had I not known who this man was, I could have assumed I was reading the blog of a college student in the throes of his first relationship.

    And, you guessed it: it’s all in the name of self development. I am amazed at the people that will continue to take this man seriously. It gets me that people like this are influencing impressionable minds with very bad, unstable philosophy.

    Ho hum 🙂

    Respect,

    Scotty

    P.S. Thanks, Range, for providing a forum for our Pavlina rants!

  41. 56 range March 6, 2010 at 00:36

    No worries Scotty. I used to like what Steve wrote about as well. Now, I’m just waiting for it all to implode.

  42. 57 spiderchannel March 16, 2010 at 04:59

    I just discovered SP’s website today – browsing selfhelp sites while I have the flu. At first I was thrilled to read such wonderful and practical advice. Then I read this long post he’d written on his “scrummy” new slave… yeugh! It disgusted and nauseated me. It seemed so puerile – like some teen who has just discovered sex, but what I found so upsetting was the sheer tactlessness vis a vis his wife and children. Really bad behaviour. I don’t care what he gets off on in private (as long as it’s with another consenting adult) but this tactless flaunting is just nauseating

    • 58 Scotty Stevens March 16, 2010 at 17:55

      You’re not alone, spiderchannel. Could you imagine if a self help guru such as Tony Robbins took the same path? He would never be taken seriously again.

      Thankfully, Range has provided us with somewhere to let off steam about this issue!

  43. 60 range March 16, 2010 at 22:24

    No worries guys. I think that there are quite a few people who don’t think that Steve is that relevant anymore. I am still subscribed to his feed, but I barely scan his posts anymore. I’m waiting to see what will happen.

  44. 61 k March 26, 2010 at 13:14

    I agree with range and a lot of the critics here. Young women see guys like steve and lose faith in men. I’m glad to hear the dissenting male voices on this site. I feel like Erin was cast away because she was no longer “young” or “exciting”. Steve is using “spirituality” as HE defines it to justify whatever he wants to do. Pleasure is important for everyone but better men don’t make their values so utterly subservient to their pleasure.

  45. 62 lita March 27, 2010 at 02:07

    steve accused people of being immature if they asked him, “is it just about the sex?” Yet according to him the first thing he does with this new woman is have sex, and she happens to be slim and younger. I don’t know how steve is able to rationalize his behaviour as some kind of enlightened move that puts him above monogamous married people. It’s disgusting. It’s a guy catering spirituality to justify his selfish focus on feeling as much pleasure as possible. we live in a world with hunger and war and tons of terrible things. if steve is so enlightened, why is that he pursues his enlightenment by having casual sex isn’t of by tackling any of those things? is it because fighting hunger won’t give him as much pleasure?

  46. 63 Eric April 23, 2010 at 01:12

    The reality is, he is a 6-7 and his ex-wife is a 3-4. It just didn’t match up. She should have had the respect to stay fit for him, so he could have an easier time being sexually attracted to her. I’m not claiming that what he did was right….just that It’s not quite as alarming as you seem to assume.

  47. 64 JJ April 24, 2010 at 13:55

    There is something very unsettling about Steve Pavlina. On the surface, he is awesome- in fact, used to give great advice on his blog and I used to read his posts in the past and get inspired. I was actually a fan of his before. Now I’m ashamed, and feel disgusted for believing him. Reading his words is one thing. But when I saw him speaking the same words on youtube, I got a very fishy vibe (call it a “first impression” guided by intuition). Watch his videos on youtube. Don’t take my word for it. He looks straight up like a LIAR. That’s when I knew. This was before the polyamory stuff- just take one look at him and see what your intuition tells you. He is pudgy as hell- NO RAW FOODIST or exercise genius looks like an old, fat child molester with a receding hair line. No raw foodist with positive, peaceful vibes is into BDSM and still brags about his intense experiences from grand theft. He is supposed to look like a result of his experiments. He doesn’t. But no one sees it because they desperately WANT to believe that he’s a god-man.
    People need to believe in themselves. Whenever anyone points out that he’s too chubby and old/tired/soulless looking to be a raw food superman, they get bashed by his followers who swallow every word he says like the BJ they’re giving him. But do they have a clear answer? Do they have proof that he’s doing those
    experiments? Or are they just empty words coming from a guy who ended high school in jail for grand theft? You think someone who has been to jail for stealing is completely innocent? Or would you use your brain and think for a second that he might STILL have some anti-social tendencies? He has stolen money before and will continue to do it. Now, through the guise of spiritualism, he’s stealing people’s souls with no one to question it. And no I don’t believe that you can go from a jailbait into saint in one lifetime. If you watch his body language, he looks like a recluse trying to play the extrovert using gestures learned from success seminars, but it looks very fake. His body language often looks rehearsed as well as what’s coming out of his mouth, but on a deeper level, you can see dishonesty and lies written all over him. He has no true humility. He shows no remorse for anything. His eyes have no soul. He is literally a sociopath. Read up on sociopaths at lovefraud.com and you will see that he fits the description perfectly. His polyamory thing is based on a few core principles : 1-be a con artist, 2-be a public whore with many female self help fans and no one to call you out on your shit (it’s literally like the emperor’s new clothes- these new agey bitches are so STUPID and and in denial that they can’t see that he is fat and naked, and obviously doesn’t go on any of these diets or fitness regimes at all- it’s all made up written garbage on his blog to make MONEY people), 3-be a pervert, lonely, insecure loser. If you see any of his youtube videos, you always find some pale and pasty star wars chick fawning over him, because they believe he has “spiritual power” and is a “spiritual” celebrity. They’re ready to whore themselves on him, and he’s ready to lap it up and kick his poor wife to a corner and throw her some food so she can make company with a burger while he screws every self help seminar chick in town. Sounds like your everyday con artist spiritual leader to me

  48. 65 range April 24, 2010 at 14:47

    Hi JJ, could you tell us more about Steve’s jail time? I didn’t know that he was convicted of anything. I enjoyed reading some of his posts, especially his experiments on polyphasic sleeping and raw foodism, but I agree that anyone who’s a raw foodist and an exercise guru wouldn’t be as soft and fat as Steve looks in some photos. He’s probably lying about many different things, kind of like a fabulist.

    He lies so much that he believes his own lies.

  49. 66 yokohamamama April 25, 2010 at 01:13

    Yup–Steve mentions his addiction to shoplifting in several posts. I thought he had an article (at least, I recall reading a lengthy article about his shoplifting, arrest, getting thrown out of Berkley…etc) about it in the articles section, but it seems to have disappeared. Hmmm. The “Ask Steve–Why Grow?” post mentions his background, though, if you’re curious.

  50. 67 yokohamamama April 25, 2010 at 01:40

    Sorry to post twice, but I knew there was a long article where Steve was very explicit about his past:

    http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/06/the-meaning-of-life-intro/

    If you can’t click on that, just search his site for the post with that title.

    The “Ask Steve–Sex” post is where he mentions Erin’s 3 1/2 year sexually/emotionally abusive relationship and it’s impact on their marriage.

    @JJ–I know what you mean. The first photo in the About section he had of himself when the site was fairly new looked, well, dweeby, but not in a bad way. The photos of himself he’s posted lately, though, give me the heebie-jeebies. Soulless, no doubt.

  51. 68 Steve Pavlina and Polyamory Crap April 28, 2010 at 19:53

    @JJ,

    I completely agree with you. You don’t have to see his videos. His picture in the blog itself especially the look is not that convincing of a spiritually strong person.

    But I have a question, do you now stop believing the principles Steve talked about?

  52. 69 Popper Whitehead May 8, 2010 at 05:28

    Wow,

    I must say I was fascinated about this post. I got here after I googled “Steve Pavlina”, it had been a long time since I saw his website, I really liked some of the stuff he wrote. But when I typed Steve Pavlina, I got the auto-fill “steve Pavlina Divorce” as a second choice. I clicked on this post.

    Reading through all the comments makes me think about a lot of things.

    1)When I see his (Steve’s) eyes, I see a kind of emptiness as well. This makes me think of the eastern way of looking at it. brown stains around the eyes are often a sign of a bad kidney quality. This is where the “Jing” recides. It’s hard to describe this. I refer to an article I found on the web:
    http://www.sciforums.com/Qi-Shen-and-Jing-energy-t-49004.html

    2)Another thing I have to think about is Barry Long, another guru and his book called “Sexual Love the Divine Way”. He basically sais the woman needs to feel the man absolutely chooses for her in order to let her heart open. Arousal is not the path to follow. You need to find the real heart connection in bed, with the one partner you choose. In the beginning I thought he was overdoing it and I still feel he is being too judgemental. But I also started to see it actually works that way for a lot of women. And it can open up for another way of living your sexual life.

    A while back I read Barry Long divorced his wife and died from prostate cancer.
    Quote from wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Long
    In 1986 he returned to his native Australia, living on Mount Tamborine QLD with his wife Kathy and young stepson, Simon, then in Burleigh Heads QLD when they divorced, and finally moving to Crabbes Creek NSW where he lived until his death from prostate cancer in December 2003.

    He divorced as well, as you can read. The wikipedia version in another language tells he suffered from the prostate cancer for 8 years. Is it a coincidence that it was prostate cancer? He was a guru probably more than Steve Pavlina. But with the exact opposite view on sexuality.

    And now my personal story adding to it:
    3) What Steven feels is an emptiness. One I feel as well. But I don’t act upon it as I see my partner wouldn’t be able to cope with it. Though I feel the urge to explore, I don’t, as I know my partner would suffer immensely.

    But it’s hard, I love her, I feel a lot for her, I feel we can be very supportive to each other, I really feel I need her. The one thing where it always goes wrong is this yearning I have to be with other women. And I don’t like this. A lot of times I hate it, it feels like to much pressure on my mind. I can say we both suffer from my needs. But it’s not a question just to quit the desire, I feel the need stays for the moment. I search, I search for professional help but it ain’t an easy problem and the advice I have heard and read can be very different.

    It seems wisest to choose one partner, but I feel it is hard on me. And I know a lot of people will tell me It’s the only right thing to do.

    And I noticed women can feel it, without being there, that their partner is “having fun” with another women.

    So I know that this needs relates to an emptiness, but it’s hard to get in contact with this emptiness.

  53. 70 Marie May 23, 2010 at 12:18

    I’m sorry to hear about his divorce too. I hadn’t had time to review his blog feed for the past year or so but his entrepreneurship articles were part of what pushed me to desire and have the courage to be an entrepreneur. Maybe it was a bit too soon after college but I’ve grown to loving being your own boss and the risks and rewards that go along with it. So for that, thanks steve. But it’s really sad that he’s gone down this path. And thanks for pointing out how unfit he does look – even though he supposedly is an early riser and works out n his home gym.
    I will take the good old posts in entrepreneurship., productivity… I even like the million dollar intention too but I won’t be paying too much attention to his articles for now.
    I’ve had a boyfriend for over 4 years and we met pretty soon after college. This is the longest relationship we’ve both Been in, though we’ve had numerous dates with other people before we met. Though I may flirt or “boy watch” every now and then, I even appreciate beautiful women and tell him so, he knows and I know it’s just thoughts or words for me -never actions.
    I’m very sorry that Erin has to deal with this sadness and pain.. I used to be amazed how such a perfect match they seemed to be spiritually.. But I guess Erin grew mature much sooner than steve.

  54. 71 E August 5, 2010 at 17:30

    A month ago I was doing a google search on jobs. I came across Steve’s article “10 Reasons You Should Never Get A Job.” I read it and found it to be very inspiring. I then read a few other posts of his about having six different streams of income & how you can make money from your blog. All had interesting, insightful, & inspiring words of advice. Within the last two weeks I’ve been checking out his latest posts….Good God.

    I hadn’t found very many websites that questioned this mans credibility and sense of reality. All I knew is that as I read his latest posts I felt something…off. But this post he made today. He’s really beyond having lost touch with reality.

    Seriously. Take a look & spread awareness.

    http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2010/08/subjective-relationships/

    What. A. Narcissist.

    This is what happens when one becomes wrapped up in these spiritual/universal laws that, mind you, are meant merely as TOOLS to help us on our life’s path. Tools to help us CONTRIBUTE to this world. Not consume. Tools that give us what we NEED. Not necessarily what we want…per se…but what we intuitively need to be happy and help contribute to the world.

  55. 72 range August 5, 2010 at 18:56

    I used to be impressed with Steve as well in the past, but I don’t really like nor enjoy what he’s been posting about recently. He is a total narcissist.

  56. 73 Steve Taylor October 2, 2010 at 11:34

    Kinda amusing to read some of the responses. Some talk as if Erin did not embrace the polyamory, but in a few articles he states she had no problem at all with it, and when he announced the separation, he even stated that it was a basic difference in interests and goals in life that lead to the divorce, not anything so complex as polyamory. Really no offense, but that just sounds like tunnel vision.

    • 74 Shakra November 11, 2010 at 10:37

      Steve, his “interests” and “goals in life” were to explore D/S sex situations which did not interest his wife…

      Yet he has publicly exposed not only himself, but his wife and kids also.

  57. 75 Shakra November 11, 2010 at 10:34

    Just got myself PERMANENTLY BANNED from Steve Pavlicker’s forums:

    This is my post… took under 30 seconds for me to be banned… I dont even think that was long enough to digest what I have written:

    Sorry Steve.. I have to call BS on this..

    I dont believe marriage isnt necessarily the pinnacle of human relationships.

    In my personal opinion, RESPECT and LOVE is the highest pinnacle of ALL human relationships.

    With mutual respect and love, a relationship can flourish. Without it, the relationship will wither and die..

    In my opinion, if my partner was an internet “celebrity” I certainly would not want the ins and outs of our relationship demise published on the internet for all to see, comment upon etc. Especially if the primary reasons where that a) I dont eat raw food and b) I dont want to participate in sadomasochistic sexual situations…

    You are appearing to me as a polarized darkworker.

    What I see is a man who has made the decision to explore polyamory regardless of the effect it will have (and has had) on his family.

    Perhaps Steve will realise this when his kids friends start coming across this information all over the internet in years to come.

    STeve, I belive that Erin is and was deserving of a lot more respect. She let you go and “play” with your new chicks… and still she offers you full support…

    I can guarantee that you have damaged Erin as part of this process… I feel her holding back in her posts. She wants to tell you, but is afraid of how you will react… YOU BROKE HER HEART. SHE IS STILL SUFFERING..

    vBulletin Message
    You have been banned for the following reason:
    personal attack
    Date the ban will be lifted: Never

  58. 77 Madeline November 13, 2010 at 20:53

    We’re all different…But I think that, at least while we’re on this earthly plane, the “ultimate” relationship is a monogamous one. I have experienced polyamorous relationships and let me tell you, they were amazing! Very cool to share that love with more than one being. And yet, as time went on, both of us(my partner and I) just naturally paired off again with one another, and vice versa with the others. It helps, of course, if you are leading a 4d lifestyle. But a 4th dimension lifestyle, in my opinion, requires a lot less sex because the desire for sex lessens so much after a time, I’ve noticed.

    If a relationship pyramid could be drawn showing the stages of evolution in relationships, I would start with casual sex-> forced/marriage style monogamy-> monogamy with casual sex(open)monogamy-> polyamory-> conscentual monogamy

    I think that it is, in the end, more of a “life lesson” to learn how to reserve sex and romantic love for one other person and maintain loving friendships with others. I can think of no greater gift than to try and love someone without wanting to merge sex with that love. Sex depletes energy, platonic love is the purest love. Romantic love–I feel that it is a great strain to feel this for more than one person at a time, over time! In the higher planes of ether, there is no gender, no sexual desire that I know of. We are aware of this. So perhaps the greatest lesson on earth is to reserve that special love(sex and romance) for one other person. What a gift platonic love is to other people! In the ether, we are all one. On earth, the more comfortable we are, the less traumatized we are from food shortages, war and death, the more likely to pair off. I think this is how it should be.

  59. 78 Sparkle December 19, 2010 at 06:11

    John said : ” I think this just a bunch of selfish decisions he’s trying to justify and rationalize by wrapping them in the cloak of personal development.”

    Yes, that was my impression exactly. Nicely pointed out.

  60. 79 Sparkle December 19, 2010 at 08:14

    JJ you bring up a damned good point. I also came upon http://edificial.blogspot.com/2006/08/church-of-steve-pavlina.html ( which I see you’ve already responded to) this article which questions the merits of many of his supposed ‘claims’.. one- having graduated a double major from CSUN in only 3 semesters with a 3.9 GPR/Grade Point Ratio ( is that even possible? ) … ( Grandiosity much?)

    He seems an incredibly fishy character to me, for sure. I mean the extent of his BS runs so high I can’t help but think… well, this guy is not your normal, run of the mill “self-help” guru

    I’m glad that the people here caught onto this guy’s absolute crap filled verbage of filler. Shows there’s some hope left after all, once you get the hang of ferreting out bullshit, you get mighty good at it.

    • 80 range December 19, 2010 at 23:28

      I am also skeptic about his graduating with a double major in 3 semesters. Anyway, I’ve stopped reading his blog. I only skim his posts from time to time.

  61. 81 Alicia August 10, 2011 at 12:56

    Oh for goodness sakes. Really?
    Steve is an ex-con who figured out how to milk the oldest con in the book using the web. Spirituality and Self-help. He went to jail and went to college. Had some hard knocks and survived them.

    That makes him an expert in…..everything? Because as I look over his blog he’s written authoritatively on just about every damn thing. But apparently loyalty and selflessness didn’t quite make the cut in all his “be the best you can be” bullshit.

    Polyamory? Really? Us mere mortals call it cheatin’. LOL He puts a “enlightening” spin on it and all the sheep wanna give him a pass. And Erin’s weight? Really? Has ANYBODY looked at HIM??? Because he’s OH SO damn sexy???? Ew Ew Ew.

    He’s an irresponsible, ego-maniacal con artist, who had a midlife crisis, probably because his spirit has been in crisis his entire life. And he’s believing his own hype.

    Here’s the best “self help” advice Steve and anyone like him can ever get.

    Ahem……..

    Get OVER yourself. Period.

    LMAO

  62. 83 Damian November 15, 2011 at 11:17

    Steve Pavlina had some great things in his blogs. Some of it helped me through a rough time. But I can’t believe in everything he says, especially after reading this blog.

    He mentioned in one of his blog that doing selfish actions would push you off from your higher self, well, that’s exactly what he’s doing, abandoning his “higher self”, and bounding himself to his carnal desires.

    It’s really to bad. I hope Erin keeps up with her life ambitions though =).

  63. 84 Scott November 20, 2012 at 07:27

    Steve is a smart guy and has professed many personal insights that are certainly worth reading. His insights are a collection (or concatenation to you software types) of well known anecdotes and philosophies readily available from an endless list spiritual writers and speakers. I don’t have an opinion about this whole polyamory topic except that is has crossed my mind before to fix long term marriage and kids boredom and disillusionment (or mid-life crisis – call it what you want) but, I intuitively nixed the idea in favor of conventional wisdom and gut level feeling that it could never work out. I think most men (and women perhaps) go though this kind of fantasy at some point in their life if they have any huevos or mojo left at all but, the smart ones learn from the Bill Clinton’s and Steve Pavlina’s apparent mistakes. I always want thank them for taking the heat that could have just as easily been directed at me. No, if I am at the end of my rope with marriage, it will be the the repectful path of completing raising my kids, agreeing to go our separate ways, remain friends and then go finding that grass is greener concept that one hopes isn’t yet another huge life lesson/mistake.

    I will say this though. I am always very suspect of the overly dramatic blogger shouting “selfish!”. I immediatey know they don’t truly understand themselves or human nature and it is around those types that I watch my wallet. Even when you say you are helping others and demonstrate overt acts of kindness, in the end it still all about YOU. I’m more freaked by a martyr than a self absorbed con man because the self absorbed con is a lot closer to learning his lesson and crossing the threshold to real love than a martyr. The martyr may never get there.


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ranjitwithkinginbehand.jpgI'm Range, your host. On the menu, photos, art, stories, entertainment and reviews. Links, maths, education and social issues. I'm in Quebec (Canada) or Taiwan (R.O.C.). Follow me on Twitter.

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